Stud8 - Is this Collusion?

[Raxxmataxx]

Seat 7 started with (73)4 and hit the Q on the river. Then the site shuffled his cards at showdown and it looked like he started with (Q7)4.

Lots of players don't play a 4-low aggressively. You can't discount a made low on 5th.

Seat 7's most probable hand is precisely 44 + a 4-low. The next one is two pair. He's not betting out because he wants to knock hero out and cut down competition for high, but don't want to put in 3 bets against the probable made low.

BI doesn't need to have a wheel draw to destroy aces here. He just needs a made low. Any will do. And if he's the least bit passive his play is very consistent with exactly that.

Betting 5th is disastrous. Even if you by luck are up against two paired lowdraws you're still in a world of pain. It's a checkfold, period.

The bring-ins hand wasn't shown because this is Full Tilt and they don't show losing hands. His hand probalby was 86, 83 or 82 though. There's just a very small range of hands for his hole cards to begin with, given that he was scooped, and that's even smaller if we want them to be a little bit consistent with his betting.

Any other low hole cards and he would have had a better low, any pair and he would've beat the pair of fours. It's pretty unlikely he went haywire with a busted flushdraw. Any straightdraws would've taken at least half the pot.

Bluff equity isn't something you invest, it's the extra part of the pot you get when someone folds a better hand.

[SapphireMoon]

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Seat 7 started with (73)4 and hit the Q on the river. Then the site shuffled his cards at showdown and it looked like he started with (Q7)4.

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So Full Tilt it is then... hate that they do this - makes hand history useless.

Ah.... that makes more sense for starters. Because his fifth street bet didn't make sense with a Q starter. I still think it's odd that he check raises at this point and isolates with a pair of 4s.

So still think that they are not colluding just newbie players. 44s raise should have been on 4th and not fifth with the wheel board out.

[Andy B]

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So Full Tilt it is then... hate that they do this - makes hand history useless.

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Hardly. Personally, I don't like the non-shuffled hole cards on Stars. It encourages people to play better, and it exposes me as a fraud.