Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods

[da_fume]

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Everybody is wound up because of three reasons:
2. The solid pro played well and lost


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Let's not forget that Chan limped UTG with J9 (it looks like suited hearts) and then called a 5xBB raise from the Big Blind. We don't know anything about the game conditions and can't determine stack sizes. But, I think most players are folding that hand both times Chan had a chance to fold pre-flop. Then again, he's up against a bluff-monkey who pushed all-in with an unimprove A7.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Tran knows what he is doing......a la CP TLB

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I was kinda with you on this in spirit (even though ruling is clearly correct), mainly because Mr Fishcakes acted like such a dill-hole when floor came over. But, seriously, you are a moron.

[Matt Savage]

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I'm going to apologize in advance for being [censored] irate about this, but the bottom line is, the fact that this muppet villain in the hand is NOT walking away with his head down thinking "i'll never do that again" is a TRAVESTY to this game

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Check out the video. www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329



As I have posted in the past, I personally have been [censored] in the same way, where a player CLEARLY throws his had towards the muck, ad instead, the dealer decides to keep his hand live. Absolutely [censored] obnoxious....



During a tournament in an all-in situation it is the CORRECT ruling for that players hand to be turned up, despite tossing it face down towards the muck.

I do NOT care what the ruling is, Foxwoods or otherwise. If a player in ANY hand decided to so BLATANTLY throw their cards towards the muck, ALL IN OR NOT, the hand is OVER. Once that player decides to throw his cards into the muck, THERE IS ONLY ONE PLAYER REMAINING IN THE HAND.

Absolutely un[censored]ing real....Instead of this donkey walking away for the mistake he made after getting PWNED, JC Tran is sitting there without the 20k pot. Like Chau Giang said, JC should have been shipped that pot...period.

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Looks like I answered this one in the wrong thread

Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states

"All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."

The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake.

Matt Savage

[todd1007]

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Yeah,

It REALLY sucks to be JC in this spot, but actually, OP, you are wrong. Tournament rules state that all-in players must have their hands turned faceup, and this is for good and obvious reasons. In a cash game, this would be a travesty, but here, it's just a terrible beat (2 beats rolled into 1) for JC. Nice to see the dipwad who won the hand get eliminated, though; he is blatantly lying when the floor comes over.

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exactly right. if you watch the video, he starts to push his chips over to JC, and then pounds the table when he sucks out. whata douche. but that is what you should expect when you play donkaments.

[Zaid_Ahmed]

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Just so. I don't think anybody believes there was attempted collusion, but were two players colluding, this is exactly how they'd do it. [1]

The dealer probably should have called the floor first, but the outcome is the same no matter what. If the floorman gets there, it goes like this:

Floor: "Are those his cards?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "You sure?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "Then turn 'em over; they're live."

Mike Ward made exactly the right ruling, and anything else starts you down a dangerous and slippery slope. It was just one of a gajillion bad beats at the Foxwoods that day. Next case.

I agree, BTW, that you should probably handle it differently in a cash game (clear intention to muck face down should be respected), but that's completely and totally irrelevant here.

Regards, Lee

[1] Erm, modulo the fact that the guy would probably bury his cards in the muck quickly so they couldn't be retrieved.

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FYI: I was personally involved in a hand at Foxwoods, 1-2nl cash game. Where I moved all in at the river on a 4 flushed board, only to have the villain show the 35h for a straight flush wheel and say in anger "I had you til the [censored] river". He then flipped his cards FACE UP and threw them towards the muck.

Instead of the dealer killing his hand, loudmouth nit at the other end of the table yells out, "you have a straight flush". At which point villain begins to pull back his turned up cards and begin placing his barrels into the pot.

Dealer called floor. Floor called another floor. Floor x 2 decided hand was live. Monkey playing 35h who doesn't even realize when he picks up a gutshot straight flush draw on the turn and mucks when he binks river, is shipped the $$.


I posted this same story a few months ago only to be told that the ruling was correct. Cash game? lolFlipament? Explain please.

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Wait, so you moved all in, he made a little speech, showed his cards and tossed them. someone noticed he had a str8 flush and then he was allowed to call your all in bet? this is ridiculous. I've misclick folded the nuts on Stars a few times and never had the option to have my cards back.
Regarding your OP, completely different situation and the correct ruling. If the guy doesn't win the hand, no fuss is ever made about this. I read somewhere that being results orientated is bad in poker.

[Flip-Flop]

Can we have a happy ending of this thread by banning the OP please?

[Daliman]

Looks like the guy was trying to flip the hand up to me, and just missed badly.

[0524432]

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Just so. I don't think anybody believes there was attempted collusion, but were two players colluding, this is exactly how they'd do it. [1]

The dealer probably should have called the floor first, but the outcome is the same no matter what. If the floorman gets there, it goes like this:

Floor: "Are those his cards?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "You sure?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "Then turn 'em over; they're live."

Mike Ward made exactly the right ruling, and anything else starts you down a dangerous and slippery slope. It was just one of a gajillion bad beats at the Foxwoods that day. Next case.

I agree, BTW, that you should probably handle it differently in a cash game (clear intention to muck face down should be respected), but that's completely and totally irrelevant here.

Regards, Lee

[1] Erm, modulo the fact that the guy would probably bury his cards in the muck quickly so they couldn't be retrieved.

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FYI: I was personally involved in a hand at Foxwoods, 1-2nl cash game. Where I moved all in at the river on a 4 flushed board, only to have the villain show the 35h for a straight flush wheel and say in anger "I had you til the [censored] river". He then flipped his cards FACE UP and threw them towards the muck.

Instead of the dealer killing his hand, loudmouth nit at the other end of the table yells out, "you have a straight flush". At which point villain begins to pull back his turned up cards and begin placing his barrels into the pot.

Dealer called floor. Floor called another floor. Floor x 2 decided hand was live. Monkey playing 35h who doesn't even realize when he picks up a gutshot straight flush draw on the turn and mucks when he binks river, is shipped the $$.


I posted this same story a few months ago only to be told that the ruling was correct. Cash game? lolFlipament? Explain please.

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nice job leaving out the most important part of this story. did villain call your allin bet before throwing his cards away?

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I explained exactly as it happened. There was no verbal call, nor any chips placed into the pot. The man said "I had you til the river" (at which point a 4th heart fell and I shoved in on him) and threw his cards face up towards the muck so that everyone could see that a travesty that river giving him a wheel flush was. The villain is a donkey and should forfeit his right to collect the pot when he so blatantly makes a fold. The loudmouth should be banned for a period of time. Neither of which happened. That is the point here, certain scenarios occur where, a player BLATANTLY intends to fold, and is yet somehow eligible to receive the pot...negatively affecting the integrity of this game.

[PlzHelpMe]

can we ban this clown

[0524432]

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huh? it's a general rule to prevent collusion. it has nothing to do with this specific hand. it's a rule.

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Just so. I don't think anybody believes there was attempted collusion, but were two players colluding, this is exactly how they'd do it. [1]

The dealer probably should have called the floor first, but the outcome is the same no matter what. If the floorman gets there, it goes like this:

Floor: "Are those his cards?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "You sure?"
Dealer: "Yep."
Floor: "Then turn 'em over; they're live."

Mike Ward made exactly the right ruling, and anything else starts you down a dangerous and slippery slope. It was just one of a gajillion bad beats at the Foxwoods that day. Next case.

I agree, BTW, that you should probably handle it differently in a cash game (clear intention to muck face down should be respected), but that's completely and totally irrelevant here.

Regards, Lee

[1] Erm, modulo the fact that the guy would probably bury his cards in the muck quickly so they couldn't be retrieved.

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FYI: I was personally involved in a hand at Foxwoods, 1-2nl cash game. Where I moved all in at the river on a 4 flushed board, only to have the villain show the 35h for a straight flush wheel and say in anger "I had you til the [censored] river". He then flipped his cards FACE UP and threw them towards the muck.

Instead of the dealer killing his hand, loudmouth nit at the other end of the table yells out, "you have a straight flush". At which point villain begins to pull back his turned up cards and begin placing his barrels into the pot.

Dealer called floor. Floor called another floor. Floor x 2 decided hand was live. Monkey playing 35h who doesn't even realize when he picks up a gutshot straight flush draw on the turn and mucks when he binks river, is shipped the $$.


I posted this same story a few months ago only to be told that the ruling was correct. Cash game? lolFlipament? Explain please.

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Wait, so you moved all in, he made a little speech, showed his cards and tossed them. someone noticed he had a str8 flush and then he was allowed to call your all in bet? this is ridiculous. I've misclick folded the nuts on Stars a few times and never had the option to have my cards back.
Regarding your OP, completely different situation and the correct ruling. If the guy doesn't win the hand, no fuss is ever made about this. I read somewhere that being results orientated is bad in poker.

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Correct. The only reason I bring it up, is all the talk of the differential between a cash game and donkament scenario. When clearly, the same ruling was imposed, both at Foxwoods. As far as the JC Tran donkament ruling, yes they made the correct ruling given the tournament rules as of now, but I'm asking....Do any of you honestly feel that the "rule" that hands must be flipped up and finished, even if a player folds the hand (for the sake of deterring collusion, which it doesn't even do) is more valuable than allowing someone like this to take down a pot after they clearly intend to fold and thereby should be forfeiting their right to proceed in the outcome of the pot?

[0524432]

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can we ban this clown

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Please let me know if I am in any way breaking a rule of the 2+2 forums by asking and responding to questions regarding my Views on this topic.