STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 121

DevinLake · #**1201** 10-01-2007, 01:35 AM

Here's what went through my head as I read the action on the flop.

Hero checks: Ok, instead of leading out, he's checking for information. He's going to see how the rest of the field acts and then act accordingly. Most likely just c/f, or maybe calling one bet.

Hero raises $6: zomg, that's so bad. Way to spewy. turning his hand into a bluff. inflating the pot oop with a weak hand. wow, not inline with the strength of his hand or his position what so ever.

dipstikdave · #**1202** 10-01-2007, 02:23 AM

chris & devin, thanks for the input. the stats i gave for villain were from memory, so i may have understated his lagginess. on the flop i felt fairly certain i was ahead of him, so i raised to isolate. on the turn, his overbet seemed so bluffy, i thought he could have any pp, 2 overs with a spade, or a low flush at worst. i thought my flush and boat outs gave me the correct odds to call. thoughts?

K䲰䮥n · #**1203** 10-01-2007, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is 18/9, 4/9/4, steals 22% over 400 datamined hands.
Hero has no image.

Seat 1: stalker7 ( $90.40 )
Seat 3: Ryesberg ( $150.30 )
Seat 5: Firetribe ( $100.50 )
Seat 6: pokerman1204 ( $100 )
Seat 8: beat390 ( $18.50 )
Firetribe posts Small Blind $0.50
pokerman1204 posts Big Blind $1

Dealing cards
Your cards 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9.spade: [Firetribe]
beat390 folds
stalker7 raises $4
Ryesberg folds
Firetribe raises $13.50

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
When I 3bet PF I honestly thought my cards were sooted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't attack nits OOP with suited connectors are you nuts

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oh yeah i think i probably said somewhere i liked it better if they were suited. i said that thinking you were on the button. i mean i guess i DO like it more with suited connectors than with unsuited ones but raising from the blinds w/ SCs against a XX/9 who opened from EP is pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I cant just raise my best hands here, right? I've gotta throw in some other hands? I'd rather be raising SCs that AT typish hands. No?

ChrisV · #**1204** 10-01-2007, 03:49 AM

The thing about cash NL that is counterintuitive is that just probably being ahead of someone is not a good reason to raise them. The NL principle that is screaming for attention here is to play small pots with small hands. Your hand is weak and has little chance of improvement, so if you lose control of the pot size OOP, you're going to be in deep trouble. Incidentally, one reason I'm not crazy about calling QJo preflop is that with so many runners putting money in the pot, it's going to be very difficult to keep the pot size under control if you flop your most likely hand, which is top pair decent kicker.

That's the way you should learn to think at NL, but there's another way to think about it. After your call on the flop the pot would be $6. Suppose your opponent has a pocket pair lower than jacks and that if you checkraise he'll fold (which he will; even a donk would fold in that spot). His chance of outdrawing you on the turn was roughly 1/20, so your checkraise is putting an additional $4.25 in the pot to stop your opponent from getting 30 cents of equity ($6 * 1/20). That's terrible value when you look at the times he has you beat, or one of the other players behind you has a 4. Not to mention that by checkraising you made it easy for him to get away from his hand, whereas if you just call he'll probably continue to think his 88 might be good.

The overbet on the turn is pretty meaningless. It might mean a bluff from some players, but vs other players it might mean that they're afraid of another spade falling, or that hitting the "allin" button is fun. You'd need a very specific read on this one player to think that means weakness.

ChrisV · #**1205** 10-01-2007, 03:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But I cant just raise my best hands here, right? I've gotta throw in some other hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Versus this type of player you should fold. This is because he is likely to have a very good hand. When people have very good hands, you should fold.

Players with PFRs of 8 you can occasionally threebet in position without good hands, but OOP your reraises should be strictly for value.

dipstikdave · #**1206** 10-01-2007, 12:58 PM

wow. thanks so much, i knew i was having a problem in this area. your explanation makes things much clearer for me. i appreciate the time you put in for me.

Isura · #**1207** 10-01-2007, 07:30 PM

I don't mind the c/r in this particular hand, but in general agree with ChrisV's sentiment

Scuba Chuck · #**1208** 10-02-2007, 05:41 PM

Villain in this hand was 11/11/3.5 over 150 hands (all at said table).

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($25)
UTG ($29.60)
MP ($60.90)
CO ($25)
Hero ($40.35)
SB ($9.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, UTG raises to $10.2, Scuba Chuck has requested TIME ...and folds.

Final Pot: $6.35

The Yugoslavian · #**1209** 10-02-2007, 05:45 PM

Scuba,

Ummm.....errr.....huh?

Shipping it in should be fine as well as calling and shipping it in on the flop (I think I prefer this one).

Yugoslav

Scuba Chuck · #**1210** 10-02-2007, 05:46 PM

Villain was like 25/11/1 over about 90 hands.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($47.05)
UTG ($25)
MP ($27.80)
Hero ($34.45)
SB ($9.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.10) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero...

View Poll Results: who likes
check/call	1	8.33%
bet/call	5	41.67%
bet/3b	5	41.67%
check/raise	1	8.33%
bet/fold (NITS)	0	0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll