My opinion was different than others, but same as the floors....???

[PantsOnFire]

Why can't players just STFU until another player is done whatever they are doing?

This sounds a lot like a reverse angle-shoot. LOL at Players 1 and 2 when floor allows her to muck. Nice tell.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]

Dealer, what is she doing?
Dealer, is that a call?
Dealer, WAKE UP and CONTROL YOUR GAME.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wrote my post before I saw this. Seems like we're on the same page.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]

Dealer, what is she doing?
Dealer, is that a call?
Dealer, WAKE UP and CONTROL YOUR GAME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is a dealer not controling the game. According to the OP no one said anything until after she had finished counting her chips. So if the dealer thought she was raising why should the dealer speak up. (Ok the reaso would hgave spoke up is because there was a point I would consider it a string bet, but many people on this board seem to feel string bets should not be called by the dealer).

Its only at the point that she is done that dispute arises and the dealer called the floor. So if you are from the camp that believes string bets should be player called I don't see how you could fault this dealer.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Dealer, what is she doing?
Dealer, is that a call?
Dealer, WAKE UP and CONTROL YOUR GAME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is a dealer not controling the game. According to the OP no one said anything until after she had finished counting her chips. So if the dealer thought she was raising why should the dealer speak up. (Ok the reaso would hgave spoke up is because there was a point I would consider it a string bet, but many people on this board seem to feel string bets should not be called by the dealer).

Its only at the point that she is done that dispute arises and the dealer called the floor. So if you are from the camp that believes string bets should be player called I don't see how you could fault this dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you're right. The dealer should just wait to see what Player 3 is doing. After a certain amount of time, he should ask her what her intentions are though. We weren't there so we can't really know the timeline.

However, this is the part that gets me:

[ QUOTE ]
....she pauses for a second, then player 2 wants to know what she's doing. Then player 1 says that what she just did constitutes a call. Player 3 says she was counting her chips and she's still deciding her action. Player 2 now says that she has to at least call the additional raise. The floor is called and while we're waiting on the floor player 3 mucks her hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
This description seems to imply that those two players took over the calling of the rules. Of course, we can't be sure that's exactly how it went down. In general, I don't like players telling another player what they should or shouldn't do and that's really why I am on the side of Player 3 here. And if all this took place exactly described, I would have to lay some fault on the dealer.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
This description seems to imply that those two players took over the calling of the rules. Of course, we can't be sure that's exactly how it went down. In general, I don't like players telling another player what they should or shouldn't do and that's really why I am on the side of Player 3 here. And if all this took place exactly described, I would have to lay some fault on the dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you have the dealer do here? enter the fray, or realizing there is a dispute call the floor. Yes i agree without us being there we can't really tell what happened, but my reading of the OP suggests the floor was called as soon as the dispute became evident.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I've only played live at my local poker room, but the tables we use have a betting line that is easily seen. If you move chips over the line they are considered a bet (or call, etc.). Otherwise, they are not. I figured this was pretty standard - do most poker rooms not have betting lines on the tables?

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you're stacking chips that were already over the betting line at the beginning of the hand?

There are betting lines that really give very little room to stack your chips. Like the new tables at Muckleshoot along the backstretch.(seats 4, 5 & 6). They gave more padding along the rail, however, in doing so, moved the padding inward towards the center instead of outward away from the table.

Betting lines suck.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds to me like the player was simply stacking chips. I'm not sure exactly what angle they thought she was shooting, or what they supposed she was gaining from this action, but I don't see that she gained any unusual advantage here. You are right, it would have been a helluva string bet too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems they were shooting the angle.

She could've gained an advantage, just like the advantage of string betting. But doesn't sound like a typical angleshooter anyways.

I agree with RR. While stacking some big pots, some people can become oblivious to the world around them.

Oh, and betting lines suck.

b

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This description seems to imply that those two players took over the calling of the rules. Of course, we can't be sure that's exactly how it went down. In general, I don't like players telling another player what they should or shouldn't do and that's really why I am on the side of Player 3 here. And if all this took place exactly described, I would have to lay some fault on the dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you have the dealer do here? enter the fray, or realizing there is a dispute call the floor. Yes i agree without us being there we can't really tell what happened, but my reading of the OP suggests the floor was called as soon as the dispute became evident.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen dealers sort crap out with a good sense of authority. I have also see dealers yell "floor" at the first sign of trouble. I honestly don't know how to disrciminate between those two types of scenarios or dealers. I think the best dealers can see these situations developing before they even do and nip things in the bud.

All I do know is that when I am playing, I don't like the prisonors running the prison. Now that I think back a few years ago, I can remember a floor replacing a dealer with one that sorted stuff out without floor needing coming back, if you know what I mean.

Generally, I don't like players that cause situations like this so I have empathy for the dealer but I do hope a room can control its customers as well, and that usually starts with the dealer.

Like I said, we weren't there in person so many details could have been lost.

You know, when I think about it, the floor should only be called after a dealer has ruled or made a call that a player doesn't agree with. See that's the part that is missing in this scenario. But it might have just been omitted in the story.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, when I think about it, the floor should only be called after a dealer has ruled or made a call that a player doesn't agree with. See that's the part that is missing in this scenario. But it might have just been omitted in the story.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely incorrect. A dealer should not rule on anything. The dealer is there to deal the cards and observe the action so they can expalin to the floor what happened if a dispute arises.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know, when I think about it, the floor should only be called after a dealer has ruled or made a call that a player doesn't agree with. See that's the part that is missing in this scenario. But it might have just been omitted in the story.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely incorrect. A dealer should not rule on anything. The dealer is there to deal the cards and observe the action so they can expalin to the floor what happened if a dispute arises.

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf? Joe raises but it's not the minimum, call the floor? Alice acts out of turn, call the floor? Fred says pair of aces and turns over nut flush, call the floor? Minnesota Jim is so hammered, he forgot to post his blind, call the floor????

I don't buy your story about the dealer not making any calls or rulings or having control over the table. Doesn't sit well. Why not just have automatic card flingers then?