top set, terrible board, 250 BB 5/10

[EgoSlasher]

Shoving the flop is bad vs a straight-forward player who just check raised you after you 3bet him pf and cbet this board. Most turns you will; bet if checked to, call if he makes a dumb 1/2 pot bet.



PF shouldn't be less than 200$.

[FatalError]

results?

[ocklind]

[ QUOTE ]
value is vs KK, JJ, KJ, AK, AJ, AoQc

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, even if you get commited vs a flush you'll draw oout 1/3 of the time. Gogogo!

[stackingboxes]

[ QUOTE ]
Shoving the flop is bad vs a straight-forward player who just check raised you after you 3bet him pf and cbet this board. Most turns you will; bet if checked to, call if he makes a dumb 1/2 pot bet.



PF shouldn't be less than 200$.

[/ QUOTE ]


god, i can't believe you can just say this without giving a range of hands.

so u think he has 89c or QTc / QTo? I admit I don't play against tourist that much, but I don't believe a straightforward one with a bit of comon sense would call that preflop, and do a tiny CR(with the straight), heck even with a flush, unless he has QTc.

I'm not saying there is no chance of having it, i'm saying there is a whole bunch of other hand that does this too.

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]

I shoved after about a minute of thought. I really felt like he had JJ given the preflop action and his reluctant call. The only other hands I considered him having were AK and AxQc, but I felt like JJ was a huge part of his range there.

He waited about two seconds before calling, and he had Qs10c, for flopped broadway. Turn was a club, river was a brick.

When I was going over his range in my head, I ruled out Q-T b/c the guy didn't seem to be the type who'd open with Q-T, consequently he didn't seem to be the type to call a three bet OOP with Q-T.

In retrospect, after he check-raises the flop it's better to call than raise unless the guy's been spewy or playing stupid LAG.


Regarding the PF raise, if he had opened for $50 in EP and I was in MP, I'd make it $200. Normally I'd make it $175 in this spot, but I was on the button, no one had limped in, and I wanted to get action and play the hand HU from the button, and tbh he probably folds for $150 more but calls $100 judging by how reluctantly he called PF.


Idk how I feel about the hand. I still like a call, but I think you can determine the value of shoving by figuring out how often he calls (or if he ever folds) with AK, AxQc, KK, JJ, KxQc, QcJx, and it seems like he'll show up with those hands much more often than he'll show up with QT or better.

Does anyone disagree with the above assumption?


I think it's really close, but having position and being deep has me feeling like it's a call and re-eval spot, and I think it increases my expectation in this hand because it gives me more options(i think i can still get paid off if I improve, but dont HAVE to pay off if I dont) and also gives me the chance to get to showdown cheaper when I dont improve, whereas shoving means none of the above.



-Tex

[donkeykong2]

i like the push, i mean we are losing about 400 $ in ev vs folding (in case he has flush or straight) which isnt an option, and villain likely calls with other sets or nut flush draw with pair or sth which we dominate much worse.