Another Reasonable River Laydown?

gaming_mouse · #1 06-07-2007, 02:44 AM

30 online. Villain just sat. This might be pretty standard but sometimes I call this and I think that's an error. Not 100% sure tho....

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.00 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.00 BB

gaming_mouse · #2 06-07-2007, 03:13 AM

Here is another river laydown hand against a relative unknown, though I'd played a bit with this guy and he bought in short and seemed bad.

30 online

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, I think you can convince yourself that he's donking an 8 or 9 that he's planning to calldown with, or donking a busted draw, but.... he isn't.

EDIT: against a complete unknown the call is more defensible.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #3 06-07-2007, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
30 online. Villain just sat. This might be pretty standard but sometimes I call this and I think that's an error. Not 100% sure tho....

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB raises, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.00 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.00 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your hand and Scary's hand are very different in that this is a very easy river fold, and Scary's hand is a very tough river call that feels horrible and always will feel horrible.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #4 06-07-2007, 03:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is another river laydown hand against a relative unknown, though I'd played a bit with this guy and he bought in short and seemed bad.

30 online

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, I think you can convince yourself that he's donking an 8 or 9 that he's planning to calldown with, or donking a busted draw, but.... he isn't.

EDIT: against a complete unknown the call is more defensible.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no reads this is a call for me every time.

gaming_mouse · #5 06-07-2007, 03:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
this is a very easy river fold

[/ QUOTE ]

k thats what i thought. just checking. thx.

DeathDonkey · #6 06-07-2007, 05:35 AM

Wow I think the opposite of ILOVEPOKER. I'd call the first and fold the second. Weird. I guess I don't trust anyone in blind battles. The second one just looks way too much like a spot where nobody would expect anyone to fold so they can't possibly be bluffing.

-DeathDonkey

ILOVEPOKER929 · #7 06-07-2007, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow I think the opposite of ILOVEPOKER. I'd call the first and fold the second. Weird. I guess I don't trust anyone in blind battles. The second one just looks way too much like a spot where nobody would expect anyone to fold so they can't possibly be bluffing.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think the opposite of me than you suck! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just kidding. Ok seriously, that is interesting DD that you said that so I will atleast explain my thought process behind each hand. You can decide for yourself if my simple thought process is flawed or not.

Hand 1: Generally speaking, when people screwplay the turn in that spot they are not bluffing. If they hand nothing they would probably check/fold the turn or bet again as a bluff. If they had a draw they would probably bet again as a bluff. Given this dynamic, and the dynamic that when people smooth call the flop in gaming mouse's spot on a KcJh2c board they probably have a made hand(obviously Gaming cant have a two overcard draw and most players would raise the flop with a gutshot or better draw) the SB's turn play looks alot like a "gimme more money" value play than a I want you to fold play.

Lastly, the river card is really terrible for Gaming Mouse cuz if even if the SB was getting fancy on the turn with QT or the nutflush draw, he is now in the lead.

So yes I am convinced this is a very easy river fold after that action with no read.

Hand 2: Not much to say here. Tx and the flopped flush draw missed and players love to bet scare cards on the river with hands they were going to check/call with anyways. Ive never folded in this spot in my online life against an unknown. Even if the Poker Gods themselves said this is a bad call, I would tell them to [censored] off and continue my crying call strategy for eternity.

danzasmack · #8 06-07-2007, 01:43 PM

I side with ILP on this one.

Actually I'm a fish and I call both hollllla. I check the turn in hand 1 a lottttt though. I am yet to play someone who resists betting AQo on the turn here.

As far as pf goes it's tough to think of hands I don't defend in the blinds.

Scary_Tiger · #9 06-07-2007, 01:45 PM

Hand 1, dude has a King or flush. Well played.

Hand 2, call call call call call.

Tippwan · #10 06-07-2007, 02:56 PM

1) Do you plan to Valuebet Turn and River? But what hand is Villain planning to check/call both streets?
I think he is planning to check/fold or to check/raise Turn the majority of time.
I would check behind Turn and call River to induce perhaps a bluff and i dont want a c/r on the turn.
Pot is small, Villain has not many Outs because of our Flushdraw.