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  #1  
Old 10-14-2007, 10:36 PM
spike420211 spike420211 is offline
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Default check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

2-4 game, aggro opponent HU, i call in SB w/357xx, catch 2 on 2nd draw, 4 on river... opponent bet out 1st and 2nd draws.
I check for 3rd draw, he pulls fastball and also checks [also drew 1 on 3rd draw tho]. I have found this true in
the majority of the cash games i play [.50-1.00 to 2-4]. Would it be more correct to bet out my strong pat 7's after 3rd draw? [if i catch on 2nd draw, i usually mix it up a bit, leaning towards betting out w/ 2+ opponents.

P.S.see Seb- i DO post here!
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 10-14-2007, 11:10 PM
Seb86 Seb86 is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

of course bet, I think it was me against you in this hand.
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  #3  
Old 10-15-2007, 12:00 AM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

I think the check-raise is fine. If you're check-raising here, though, you need to remember to check-raise bluff occasionally.

In fact, my game-theory solver for 1:1 draws says you should check-raise a variety of hands, not just #1.
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  #4  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:31 AM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

please give us the exact action pre-first draw, your explanation is confusing.
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  #5  
Old 10-15-2007, 06:43 PM
spike420211 spike420211 is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
please give us the exact action pre-first draw, your explanation is confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
called a raise[2bets] from Seb in the cutoff
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  #6  
Old 10-15-2007, 09:45 PM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
please give us the exact action pre-first draw, your explanation is confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
called a raise[2bets] from Seb in the cutoff

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't do that. Even with 1/2 blinds.
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  #7  
Old 10-15-2007, 10:28 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
please give us the exact action pre-first draw, your explanation is confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
called a raise[2bets] from Seb in the cutoff

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a fold, not a call. Feel free to call in the BB as a blind defense, but in the SB your gonna get hurt when you call there.

on the river bet your hand. Your going to make more $$$ in the long run by betting the river than you will be c/r.
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  #8  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:14 PM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
please give us the exact action pre-first draw, your explanation is confusing.

[/ QUOTE ]
called a raise[2bets] from Seb in the cutoff

[/ QUOTE ]

thats a fold, not a call. Feel free to call in the BB as a blind defense, but in the SB your gonna get hurt when you call there.

on the river bet your hand. Your going to make more $$$ in the long run by betting the river than you will be c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you need to have some river check-raises in your range. Otherwise your opponent will take you to value-town whenever you check (unless, of course, you check-fold a lot which is also bad.)

I wrote a tool a while back that solves (using game theory) last-round betting after a 1:1 draw, over a range of hands. (This is different from previous results which examined just a known draw for each player.) Approximate game-theoretic solution for 5 bets in the pot:

check-fold: 16.8%
check-call: 36.4%
check-raise-fold: 1.9%
check-raise-call: 5.9%
check-raise-raise: 0.9%
bet-fold: 10.7%
bet-call: 22.5%
bet-raise-fold: 0.8%
bet-raise-call: 4.2%

With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.
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  #9  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:37 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]

With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you missing the times that the villain checks behind, which sadly is quite often?
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:39 PM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you missing the times that the villain checks behind, which sadly is quite often?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, are you counting all the times it goes bet/fold on the end and you don't get paid off anyway? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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