Totaly confused here

RichC. · #1 12-05-2006, 02:07 PM

A rare thing for me to be completely confused.

Bodog 30k, $40+4. I dont have the HH and not even sure how to get it from them.

I have been fairly active and am well above avg with ~10k at the 30/60 level. I have only shown down strong hands, i got most of my chips when i turned a gutshot straight and a guy pushed his 2 pair, this was a limped pot too.

Hero is in LP, Hijack I think, and dealt TT. Folds to me and i raise to 180. SB reraises to 400. This is the first time he has done anything as most players have been folding to my raises. Since I have been fairly active, I think he can easily be reraising light here. Not sure what range to put him on as he is still very near to the starting stack of 3k. I call and see a flop in posistion.

Flop is Jxx. Decent flop for TT. SB overbets the pot, ~1000 I think. Hero?

edit:my numbers were a little off, fixed.

HerbieGRD · #2 12-05-2006, 02:26 PM

I don't really hate a push or a fold here - I would probably go with my gut feeling on whether I was good or not - I know thats not very helpful. With a big stack early like you have here my default is probably to fold though - it is a little less likely that he is trying to bully a big stack and more likely he is just protecting his overpair.

ForeverGamer · #3 12-05-2006, 02:30 PM

With no reads on the SB, a small stack taking on a larger one agressively it screams huge over pair (AA, KK, poss QQ but not usual), could even have trips with one of your X's so in this position I'd fold everytime.

My explaination for this is this... SB's read on you would be willing to bet (like the gutshot hand) to get value so figures you'd call pretty much anything in this position as you raised pre-flop and called his re-raise. Also figures you would at least want to see a turn card. He's playing you and setting you up for a huge fall.

CobraGoat · #4 12-05-2006, 02:43 PM

I understand your confusion. The flop RR oop seems to indicate that he wants action from you as he is holding QQ-AA. Although this could just be a really bad tester RR on an admitedly active big stack who may be perceived at this point as a bully. I also think that 88-JJ would either RR larger or flat call. In any case, i think this is a clear fold at this stage of the tourney. You are only invested 400 at which point you are facing a large bet with an ok hand and have no idea where you stand as you have no read on villain. This would indicate to me to fold and look for tons of other better spots to accumulate.

RichC. · #5 12-05-2006, 03:23 PM

ForeverGamer, great post and something I have had a hard time expressing, you need to start posting more. Or not, fewer post might keep us from seeing the real donkey in you. (just kidding [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I really put the sb on a range of AQ+, and JJ+, but certainly not ruling out 77-99. I know that I am more apt to play back at perceived bullies with 77+.

I decided to call the turn as i really dont think he has a J or even an overpair (i have been wrong before though).

Turn is another low card, 6 i think. SB Pushed for ~2300. Hero? I swear this is like never TPTK or an overpair or a set even, except I am seeing this more often and players are getting no value out of their hands. There are two spades on the board now. I already know that most will say fold here, so does anyone like a sick call here?

AceLuby · #6 12-05-2006, 04:08 PM

I can't believe everyone told you to fold. I'm pushing this flop and not even thinking twice about it. This is almost never QQ+ on a J high flop. I mean who overbets an overpair? Just not very standard. Might be AJ, but I don't think it's very common to overbet TPTK hands either. He's got a worse underpair or missed overs. Oh and I'm calling this push instantly.

durkahdurkah · #7 12-05-2006, 04:18 PM

Considering he reraised you PF, then overbet the flop... I doubt he has an overpair unless it is EXACTLY QQ. AJ prob wouldn't reraise you PF, so it's doubtful that any other jack does, unless he has JJ, then would he overbet with top set? I doubt it. Not to say any of these hands are not in his range, they just constitute a small portion of it.

I think you're going to see a hand like 88 or AK WAY WAY more often than QQ-AA/Jx/set here. So folding is out IMO.

With his stack size, calling would be pretty bad too.

I'd push, with one caveat... If you can put AJ (and to a lesser extent, KJ) in his range based on previous play, you can fold the flop.

ZJ123 · #8 12-05-2006, 04:24 PM

he could easily have an overpair, often people play scared and overbet with an over pair. then again he could have air or AK. its a close call, against a random boDONK, im not really sure. lol.

HerbieGRD · #9 12-05-2006, 04:35 PM

I don't like the flop call but this is basically the best card in the deck for your hand except for a card that pairs the board - I think I call here pretty quickly

RichC. · #10 12-05-2006, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
he could easily have an overpair, often people play scared and overbet with an over pair. then again he could have air or AK. its a close call, against a random boDONK, im not really sure. lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

This probably sums it up best, at least my thought process anyway.

FWIW I tanked and folded but my mouse hovered over that call button for a VERY long time. Villian claimed to have AJs but I told him he was full of [censored].