Live NL: Running it twice etiquette

[Percula]

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apologies if this has been discussed.

was wondering if there was etiquette when deciding to run it twice in live NL cash games..like, if i decide to run it twice in one pot, is it proper etiquette to have to run it twice in all other pots where my opponent offers the option. so basically, if I accept an offer to run it twice once, am I obligating myself to do it for the rest of the session??

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Rather it is correct or not IME, yes it is treated kind of like chopping the blinds... If you do business once, it seems like everyone expects you to do it with them too and will be offended or pissed off if you refuse to do business with them too.

You might want to search the HSNL forum as RBK has posted about this and how it effects play. Very good reading if you can find it...

[bav]

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Two weeks ago at the Wynn, floor denied a run it twice request at the $1/3NL game.

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as they should. seriously, what is it with people wanting to run it twice in these small stakes games? None of these guys even knew what it was until they put it on TV.

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One argument is that stakes shouldn't matter. Someone playing in a 2/5 game with $1000 on the table all-in with top set against a OESFD may be sweating that $1000 every bit as much as The Mouth sweats a $50K all-in on HSP.

At exactly what stakes is running it twice ok? ANY pot in a NL10/25 game? Or should the pot have to have $10K in it first?

But yeah, I'm personally glad they don't normally allow this at the stakes I play 'cause it just slows things down and I'm not all that interested in doing it myself (but would accede to a polite request from another player to do so). In the case at Rio, both players knew what run-it-twice meant, but half the table (including the dealer) looked very confused and demanded explanations as to what monkey business was afoot so it required the floor come and approve it and explain how it was all going to happen. Guess if it were more common this wouldn't be necessary.

[ungarop]

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Two weeks ago at the Wynn, floor denied a run it twice request at the $1/3NL game.

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as they should. seriously, what is it with people wanting to run it twice in these small stakes games? None of these guys even knew what it was until they put it on TV.

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One argument is that stakes shouldn't matter. Someone playing in a 2/5 game with $1000 on the table all-in with top set against a OESFD may be sweating that $1000 every bit as much as The Mouth sweats a $50K all-in on HSP.

At exactly what stakes is running it twice ok? ANY pot in a NL10/25 game? Or should the pot have to have $10K in it first?

But yeah, I'm personally glad they don't normally allow this at the stakes I play 'cause it just slows things down and I'm not all that interested in doing it myself (but would accede to a polite request from another player to do so). In the case at Rio, both players knew what run-it-twice meant, but half the table (including the dealer) looked very confused and demanded explanations as to what monkey business was afoot so it required the floor come and approve it and explain how it was all going to happen. Guess if it were more common this wouldn't be necessary.

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Couldn't agree more.

To respond to the first reply, the Wynn game is uncapped, so the pots can be quite large. Both players involved in the pot were clearly competant, regular players. They were not trying to act like they were on HSP, they were trying to make a deal in a $1200+ pot.

[AMT]

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Two weeks ago at the Wynn, floor denied a run it twice request at the $1/3NL game.

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as they should. seriously, what is it with people wanting to run it twice in these small stakes games? None of these guys even knew what it was until they put it on TV.

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new way to gambooooool

[TonyLA]

The only casino in LA that I'm aware of that allows this is the Bike - in their 5/10NL uncapped buy-in games and above. You can run it twice or 3 times.

The biggest reason that more casinos don't offer it is because most players (and floor) don't understand the math involved, particularly when one of the "runs" results in a chop. Most people have no concept of how to do the math quickly and efficiently, so it slows the game down.

I'm a huge fan of running it more than one to reduce variance - as that's all it does. The win/loss %'s do not change.

As far as etiquette - you need to be sure 1. that the casino allows it, and the time to ask is NOT when the situation arises - ask before you sit down at a table.

2. You need to be sure the other player understands what you are proposing. Often times I'll choose to run it twice with someone unfamiliar as they understand the concept of "splitting the pot into 2 pots" rather than 3.

3. *YOU* need to have a firm grasp on the math and situations where there's a win and a chop if you run it twice, or two wins and a chop at 3 times, or a win and 2 chops, etc. If you don't, you may want to hold off on running the cards more than once unless there's no chance of a tie.

4. If you do agree to run the cards more than once, etiquette dictates that the player with the best hand gets to choose how many times to run it - obviously this requires that you show your hands before the deal is made, which you should always do.

You are right though - if the stakes are relatively high, whenever I'm all in with the best hand and a guy has a 1,2 or 4 outer to catch, I want to run the cards as many times as I can to reduce the variance. Casinos that allow me to do this are obviously places that I'd prefer to play.

- T

[johnnyrocket]

be a baller, dont run it twice

[Admo]

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4. If you do agree to run the cards more than once, etiquette dictates that the player with the best hand gets to choose how many times to run it - obviously this requires that you show your hands before the deal is made, which you should always do.

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Some players prefer to do business before showing their hand. (and will muck if they don't 'get there' on either board)

Also, be very wary if a player offers a deal before tabling his hand that takes the form "Let's take back $X each and run it twice for the rest." You will almost always have the best of it here.

[USC@MICH]

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Two weeks ago at the Wynn, floor denied a run it twice request at the $1/3NL game.

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as they should. seriously, what is it with people wanting to run it twice in these small stakes games? None of these guys even knew what it was until they put it on TV.

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Ummm not quite.....Frist time I saw somebody "run it twice" I was 15. The first time I saw it at a casino was at the Jack Binion WPO in 2000. Not everone is monkey see monkey do.

[NaturalSelection]

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Two weeks ago at the Wynn, floor denied a run it twice request at the $1/3NL game.

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as they should. seriously, what is it with people wanting to run it twice in these small stakes games? None of these guys even knew what it was until they put it on TV.

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Ummm not quite.....Frist time I saw somebody "run it twice" I was 15. The first time I saw it at a casino was at the Jack Binion WPO in 2000. Not everone is monkey see monkey do.

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um, ok. I suppose I should have said the VAST majority. good catch.

[Headhunter13]

You might want to search the HSNL forum as RBK has posted about this and how it effects play. Very good reading if you can find it...

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Link?

I sux at the search ... tried with no luck.

--Headhunter