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#21
03-19-2007, 10:19 AM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid I don't follow you entirely. Are you saying that all Scriptural doctrines and facts follow logically from the pure text? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but let me back up. The interpretative authority which allows us to understand Scripture is the Holy Spirit. The Bible says when we become a Christian, God implants the Law in our hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't know how familiar you are with Christian theology, but you become a Christian by admitting you are a sinner, believing and confessing that you believe Jesus died for your sins, and asking Jesus "into your heart". When you do this, the Holy Spirit actually does enter your heart and live inside you. This same Holy Spirit is the interpretative authority which guides us in understanding Scripture. My answer earlier was 'reason'. What I meant was that God designed our minds with the ability to reason. One of the characteristics that separates Christianity from other religions is that what we know about God is constantly growing. As we learn more about our world, under the Biblical belief that God designed it, we learn more about God. We are therefore able to tweak our interpretations of Scripture to fit this new knowledge. This doesn't mean that the texts are purposefully edited from their originals. It just means that man's interpretations of these texts is sometimes flawed and needs updating, and there's a lot we still don't know about God. One more thing: one of the criticisms that often appear on these boards concerning Christians is that if ever we are confronted with something that contradicts or conflicts with something the Bible says, we just reinterpret, and just like that the problem is fixed. There are two things about this on which I’d like to comment. First, I don’t believe this occurs on the same level to which it is accused to happen. Most doctrines of Christianity haven’t changed in hundreds and hundreds of years. And secondly, to know whether this criticism is valid (and obviously I believe it’s not) requires the application of reason, as well. One must look at the passage of scripture in question and reconcile the dispute in his own mind as to whether or not the criticism is or is not reasonable. I hope this helps. 
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#22
03-19-2007, 11:02 AM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
By reading what you posted, I have to ask... did you mean to say magic when you typed the word reason before?
[ QUOTE ] The interpretative authority which allows us to understand Scripture is the Holy Spirit. The Bible says when we become a Christian, God implants the Law in our hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't know how familiar you are with Christian theology, but you become a Christian by admitting you are a sinner, believing and confessing that you believe Jesus died for your sins, and asking Jesus "into your heart". When you do this, the Holy Spirit actually does enter your heart and live inside you. [/ QUOTE ] There is nothing reasonable about what you wrote here. Just some superstitious magic as told by primitive man and believed by people who actually drop reason over their desire to believe.
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#25
03-19-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, kurto, I meant to say magic. [/ QUOTE ] Txag, even though we disagree on many things, and my posts in re: to you are often sarcastic, this made me laugh, and for that I am thankful.
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#26
03-19-2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yes, kurto, I meant to say magic. [/ QUOTE ] Txag, even though we disagree on many things, and my posts in re: to you are often sarcastic, this made me laugh, and for that I am thankful. [/ QUOTE ] And though I'm teasing him, I hope he can see where my comments would come from. Within the same thread he went from talking about how you can interpret the scriptures rationally... blink... because you're possessed by a Holy Ghost. Sounds rational.
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#27
03-19-2007, 07:06 PM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well you see I don't accept things at face value - I go check up on sources before I give what they say any credit. [/ QUOTE ] Did you check the background of the person who wrote the article to which you linked, or did you take that at face value? Just curious. [/ QUOTE ] the answer to your question is included in the part of my post you quoted. Here it is again incase you missed it. [ QUOTE ] I don't accept things at face value - I go check up on sources before I give what they say any credit. [/ QUOTE ] some other thoughts.... "24000+ copies of New Testament documents are still in existence today. The copies match the "current" Bible to 99% accuracy." in whose opinion? and how did the people who think that this is true go about their comparison?? "95% of the errors found in the New Testament text are recognized as unintentional. These include confusion of similar letters, repitition of words or sentences, and just plain bad copying." how the errors came about is of no consequence - they are still errors and they are still there. Slight typographical errors can totally change the meaning conveyed by the original author. "most of the New Testament can be reconstructed by scholars with reasonable certainty -- as much certainty as we can reconstruct *any* book of the ancient world" most books of the ancient world aren't sold as "the direct word of God" and don't have millions of fundamentalists ready to go to war over what they understand the word means ... You do seem very very good at evading questions... here are some simple direct questions I hope you will be able to answer. i) What is the point of this thread? ii) Why has it been reincarnated three times? iii) Is it possible do you think for us to have some actual discussion or debate in these threads which you have started or do you plan to continue to post very short answers that evade the questions?
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#28
03-19-2007, 10:32 PM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm afraid I don't follow you entirely. Are you saying that all Scriptural doctrines and facts follow logically from the pure text? [/ QUOTE ] Yes, but let me back up. The interpretative authority which allows us to understand Scripture is the Holy Spirit. The Bible says when we become a Christian, God implants the Law in our hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't know how familiar you are with Christian theology, but you become a Christian by admitting you are a sinner, believing and confessing that you believe Jesus died for your sins, and asking Jesus "into your heart". When you do this, the Holy Spirit actually does enter your heart and live inside you. This same Holy Spirit is the interpretative authority which guides us in understanding Scripture. My answer earlier was 'reason'. What I meant was that God designed our minds with the ability to reason. One of the characteristics that separates Christianity from other religions is that what we know about God is constantly growing. As we learn more about our world, under the Biblical belief that God designed it, we learn more about God. We are therefore able to tweak our interpretations of Scripture to fit this new knowledge. This doesn't mean that the texts are purposefully edited from their originals. It just means that man's interpretations of these texts is sometimes flawed and needs updating, and there's a lot we still don't know about God. One more thing: one of the criticisms that often appear on these boards concerning Christians is that if ever we are confronted with something that contradicts or conflicts with something the Bible says, we just reinterpret, and just like that the problem is fixed. There are two things about this on which I’d like to comment. First, I don’t believe this occurs on the same level to which it is accused to happen. Most doctrines of Christianity haven’t changed in hundreds and hundreds of years. And secondly, to know whether this criticism is valid (and obviously I believe it’s not) requires the application of reason, as well. One must look at the passage of scripture in question and reconcile the dispute in his own mind as to whether or not the criticism is or is not reasonable. I hope this helps. [/ QUOTE ] Thx for the reply, I don't have any further questions ATM...
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#29
03-20-2007, 09:09 AM
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Re: New Testament Textual Criticisms
[ QUOTE ]
"24000+ copies of New Testament documents are still in existence today. The copies match the "current" Bible to 99% accuracy." in whose opinion? and how did the people who think that this is true go about their comparison?? [/ QUOTE ] Did you read the article? It's in there. [ QUOTE ] "95% of the errors found in the New Testament text are recognized as unintentional. These include confusion of similar letters, repitition of words or sentences, and just plain bad copying." how the errors came about is of no consequence - they are still errors and they are still there. Slight typographical errors can totally change the meaning conveyed by the original author. [/ QUOTE ] Did you read the article? It addresses this. [ QUOTE ] "most of the New Testament can be reconstructed by scholars with reasonable certainty -- as much certainty as we can reconstruct *any* book of the ancient world" most books of the ancient world aren't sold as "the direct word of God" and don't have millions of fundamentalists ready to go to war over what they understand the word means ... [/ QUOTE ] That's not the issue. The accusation against the Bible by you guys is that it doesn't resemble the original texts because of prolific editing. I find it interesting that you didn't fight this point, but rather seemed to agree with it. You do realize who that quote was by, right? [ QUOTE ] You do seem very very good at evading questions... [/ QUOTE ] The questions you are asking, at least in this post, have already been answered. [ QUOTE ] What is the point of this thread? [/ QUOTE ] To defend the Bible against the charge that it "is a giant storybook collection that has been exaggerated over time due to the chinese whisper effect of many translations and much editing" just as it is stated in the OP. [ QUOTE ] Why has it been reincarnated three times? [/ QUOTE ] It hasn't. [ QUOTE ] Is it possible do you think for us to have some actual discussion or debate in these threads which you have started or do you plan to continue to post very short answers that evade the questions? [/ QUOTE ] As I said, you are asking questions that have already been answered. Can you blame me?
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