Is this good tourney play or am I a luckbox?

igetjokes · #1 12-05-2006, 12:58 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t37200)
Button (t43773)
SB (t9614)
BB (t7234)
Hero (t29425)
UTG+1 (t10931)
MP1 (t9914)
MP2 (t11273)
MP3 (t16165)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t800, 5 folds, Button calls t800, SB calls t700, 1 fold.

Flop: (t2600) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t3000, Button raises to t8200, SB folds, Hero calls t5200.

Turn: (t19000) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets t34773 (All-In), Hero calls t20425 (All-In).

River: (t74198) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t74198

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qc As (two pair, aces and tens).
Button has Ac 3c (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins t59850. Button wins t14348. 

I went into the tank on both his flop reraise and his turn all-in bet.

I called the turn bet because I figured if he had AK he would raise preflop, if he had trip tens he was overbetting and likewise for 33.

With that reasoning I thought I was in front.

Interested to hear others opinions.

zoobird · #2 12-05-2006, 01:12 PM

It would be useful to know what buy in this is, and whether you have any reads. That said, I would definitely fold on the turn, and without reads would be tempted to fold the flop as well. I'm thinking his preflop calling range (I'm assuming a lowish buy in) is something like AT-AK and 22+ (because of the deep stacks). On the flop I'd narrow that down to something like AK, AQ, AT, TT, 33...which is bad for you.

zoobird · #3 12-05-2006, 01:13 PM

P.S. Next time use a more descriptive subject for your post (ie 'tp2k get reraised on flop')...you'll get more responses.

Art Vandelay · #4 12-05-2006, 01:37 PM

Yeah, this one's hugely dependent on what tourney and what type of player you're against. There are opponents where this is "good tourney play" and opponents where this is "I am a luckbox".

In general, alarm bells are going off in my head on the flop raise. You've raised UTG, put in a PSB, and the button has raised with one person still to act. Basically he's said "I know what your range is, and screw you, I still raise"

seke2 · #5 12-05-2006, 01:43 PM

Flop is definitely foldable. Art Vandelay covered that pretty well.

Turn, I agree with your thought process and call too. You will definitely see something like KTdd or QTdd occasionally here too, but I think in general, worse aces are a lot of his range now.

igetjokes · #6 12-05-2006, 01:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It would be useful to know what buy in this is, and whether you have any reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. This was a $10 rebuy on Stars, with a field of about 500. No reads because I'd recently moved table.

Thanks for info.

BlueEcho · #7 12-05-2006, 01:59 PM

Preflop: Hero standard would be 600 but 800 is ok. Villian makes a bad call, I guess it's not horrible I don't like it.

Flop: Hero would be better off with a bet of 2000 IMO. Villian makes a huge bet and tells me I'm beat or he is on a flush draw. I would probably put villian on AK, TT, AT or 33 here. AJ is not likely and no other pair such as KK is playing this way. So what do we beat? For the record after I saw the flop the title of your post gave away the hand to me.

Turn: Well if you added A,3 to the possible holdings of
villian then horay for us we are ahead now. Otherwise we are still beat. For reasons listed above I don't like Hero's call.

Like I said I didn't like villian's call pf anyway, this is one of the reasons why.

This would be easier to answer with reads or even knowing the buy in level.

Eagles · #8 12-05-2006, 02:01 PM

NH, I'm never folding here

igetjokes · #9 12-05-2006, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, this one's hugely dependent on what tourney and what type of player you're against. There are opponents where this is "good tourney play" and opponents where this is "I am a luckbox".

In general, alarm bells are going off in my head on the flop raise. You've raised UTG, put in a PSB, and the button has raised with one person still to act. Basically he's said "I know what your range is, and screw you, I still raise"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah alarm bells were going off in my head. Generally, I hate calling, I'm either folding or raising. I guess I flat called his reraise on flop because I couldn't see how I was behind, and thought for the price I would see another card. It was definitely loose play.

ForeverGamer · #10 12-05-2006, 02:17 PM

Generally now, when I've been moved tables during a MTT and I have no reads, I never just cold call unless I've the nuts and no chance of suckout flushes coming. I agree with most here, either raise or fold as in this hand, you were either beat or got lucky, not lucky in cards though, lucky in catching a bad player (for the call with A3 to a raise) in the hand as anyone of any skill that would have been in this hand by the turn had you beat for sure.