flop check

[James.]

i post in the CO at a 6handed table. it was a good game with some known(to me) fish and LAGs.

UTG is standard 6max LAG(45/7/3.2) but he is less aggro preflop, but very often gets out of line postflop. he bets draws, any pair, and nothing(i.e. is very capable of bluffing).

bb is fish(60/3/.5). sb is unknown.

UTG limps, folds to me with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and i raise my post, fold to UTG who calls.

Flop(5.5sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

he checks, i check it back.

Turn(2.75bb): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

he bets, i call.

River(4.75bb): J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

he bets, i call.

try to put UTG on a hand or range of hands.

what line would you take in this hand? why is it better?

[Lethe]

I don't mind this line against villains like this. If you bet the flop and he c/rs, you're going to have a hard time continuing, plus he is probably going to bet the turn no matter what.

[mongidig]

Do you often check the flop heads up? Would this look suspicious? If not, then I would just bet it. If the Villian check-raises then either call down or raise the turn for a free showdown. If the villian just calls, then you could check the turn and induce a bluff on the end.

I don't like checking flops with vulnerable hands like this. One thing we know for sure is that we are taking this hand to showdown.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you often check the flop heads up?

[/ QUOTE ]

in case you missed it there is a wrinkle i've been working into my game against aggro players. here's the post.

i'm still experimenting on actual application, but the results have been good so far. sample is only over several thousand hands.

[*TT*]

James - is he a donk better with any piece of the board? If so then I like it unless he is the type to call all flops and make decisions on the turn, then you have to bet the flop. Always.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
James - is he a donk better with any piece of the board?

[/ QUOTE ]

he does donk pairs alot. he checkraises a fair amount as well, but that's usually only his stronger hands.

[Bob T.]

Hmmm an interesting hand all around.

I usually don't post in the CO in short handed games.

I might check preflop.

As played, I probably bet the flop.

But, it does seem like a good spot for your pet line.

[SNOWBALL]

no
Bet the flop. If he CRs, then you have a decision to make, and it's prob "call down" unless a 6 or a nine comes off.

This line is best reserved for spots where:
1. villain won't call with worse hand
2. If villain is behind, he has few outs
3. The pot is small
4. You will be in a bad spot if CRed
5. You are quite sure he will bluff turn and river with the vast vast majority of his range.

I think he will call with a worse hand
I think you will be in an OK spot if CRed (i.e. you may be ahead or have some nice outs)
You aren't in too bad of a spot if CRed, because you know that your effective odds are decent, and that you can fold vs. some key scare cards, or u can catch up on some of his hands that beat u

The only real condition that applies here is that the pot is semi small, but it's not THAT small. It's more than 5 sbs. KOing a six out draw has some nice value here.

Look for better spots for this line imo. Like when the flop is K72 rainbow and u have QQ or JJ.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
I might check preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you ever do this with A7s vs UTG's range?

[James.]

thanks for the feedback.

all,

what is your street-by-street line for this hand? bet, bet, bet or bet, bet, check or what? do you call a raise on the flop? what about the big streets? gimme your line.