Cheating in Online Poker

[CybrPunk]

Paul:

I'm with you as far as wanting to do something to ensure online poker is fair. At the same time, I also agree with other posters that airing dirty laundry in the most public of places will do more harm to online poker than good. It's a tough position to be in, yet given the choice I would prefer to protect online poker as a whole. With all of the negative press that online gambling has gotten recently, coupled with the fact that our government is currently on its own crusade to stamp out online gambling, I don't see what good your article can do towards ensuring the continued security of something we all enjoy.

As an alternative, I think we as players should make an effort to have our voices heard by the poker sites and inform them that we won't stand for these things any longer. I know there are a number of people on this forum that have contacts in the poker industry. If we truly care about the integrity of the game, then this is the time to take advantage of having those contacts and point them in this direction. It could even go so far as to gather some of the more respected names and collectively voice your concerns to the various sites, somewhat like an advisory council.

In the end it's the sites that need to revise their policies and implement safeguards to protect players. This all falls in line with arguments that our opposition use against online gambling because, in the end, the consumer is not being protected to the best of the sites' abilities. This is a huge part of why regulation of sites is important.


The bottom line is that there are alternatives to screaming fire and I think that the end result of any of them would be better for online poker as a whole. In a time where attracting new players is harder than ever and our own government is continually looking for reasons to stamp out a game we enjoy, I don't see how your crusade can have a positive effect on our efforts as a poker community.

[Exitonly]

zj123,

what did JJp deny exactly? Whenever i've had conversations about multiaccounting still going on, JJ's name comes up as the main violator. Also I'm positive that he's still playing poker (not here and there) cause i've watched him play some nosebleed on Full Tilt, and i often hear about how he often he goes deep in the million. I'm fine with him still playing poker, obv not fine that he's killing by cheating ramptantly.

edit: i never got exact information about what his accounts were on stars or which were multiaccounting, but his FTP that was playing highstakes was like 'ronaldkosh' or something v. similar.

edit edit: want to make it clear, i have no proof that JJ is guilty of anything, and i'm not even sure if i suspect that he's blatantly/clearly broken rules, but i do know he's involved in a bunch of shady things, and also killing online poker - all while no one knows anything about him. Just a weird situation, plus as i said, his name always comes up in the CURRENT multiaccounting conversations.

[jsbjoe]

I completely agree with uclabruin and bobneptune. Sweeping the cheating issue under the carpet (such as supposedly would occur if discussions were confined to forums such as this one) is absurd and will not insulate and reassure the "fishes". What a silly idea.

Failing to properly address cheating will not promote online poker. What actually is likely to happen is quite the opposite -- online sites such as PokerStars, acting entirely out of self interest, will begin to disclose enough about their security to reassure all of us (not just fishies), but not so much as to compromise their techniques.

Sites like Ultimate Bet, which appear to take cheating far less seriously, will continue to remain silent.

[kleath]

I find it ridiculous that an article is in talks of being written by someone who admittedly has no first hand or even second hand knowledge of the subject matter, but wants to base the content on what he heard from some other guy that heard about something. this is why journalism sucks the proverbial monkey teat...

[McMelchior]

I've kept out of this thread so far, and it's quite possible I would have served the cause better by staying with that strategy.

Nevertheless:

A) I have a strong interest in seeing online poker explicitly legalized and regulated here in the States - the same way it appears to be happening in EU these days. I find it hard not to believe 100% of the previous posters in this thread share this interest.

B) Online poker does not have even a remote chance of recieving approval from the US legislature, unless there are highly effective means in place to secure that i) no minor is playing for real money, ii) no cheating of any kind is possible, or - if this is impossible - that the cheating is detectable by the sites.

C) With ways of enforcing the UIGEA still under development I have little doubt the steady influx of casual players (personally I hate the term "fish") will decrease to a level, where even the best of those guys that eek out some sort of a living from todays games will find themself without sufficient income to cover their allowances (I'm not talking about paying rent, health insurance etc, since it appears most of them still lodge with their parents). It might not happen this year, but it's a trend and right now little is bucking it.

D) Judging from the success of the casino industry it's pretty obvious, that the potential revenue from online poker is of a scale, that individual sites eyeing even a remote chance of legalization/regulation in the US will have an interest in investing into developing means to clean up the games.

E) The opponents of legalization/regulation will have an easy time as long as the issues of cheating and under-age gaming are not addressed by the poker community. Way too easy.

The only way I see we are to have any shot at defeating the religious/puritanist/conservative/whatever buttholes is by - very vigorously - addressing the cheating and under-age gaming ourselves.

Concerns about loss of income (EV) due to this debate are as petty and nearsighted as it comes.

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys realize that JJProdigy was 15 when all that [censored] went down a year and a half ago? I mean i dont condone cheating, but im sure he was immature and naive. Also i talked to JJ just now and he completely denies what adanthar said. Not that anyone cares, because the witch hunt will continue.

I didnt ask JJ about it, but i wouldn't be shocked if he was playing still, here and there, but i don't think theres any way he still multi accounts.

Then again, maybe im naive.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if JJ still plays (which it sounds like he does), he is still probably not even 17 years old and definitely not 18.

So...if he is playing at all...

1) He is obviously underage - BLATANTLY against the T&C of websites. There is no gray area here.

2) He could POSSIBLY be cheating while already getting around the rules in the first place.

I don't care what kind of money this kid is making or how good he is at poker. I sincerely hope this kid gets locked up at some point in his life.

[Exitonly]

How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care what kind of money this kid is making or how good he is at poker. I sincerely hope this kid gets locked up at some point in his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to see anyone go to prison, but there's no reason to knowingly tolerate underage players. The existence of underage players gives every Puritanical, hysterical poker opponent the ammunition they need to take shots at online poker.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't care what kind of money this kid is making or how good he is at poker. I sincerely hope this kid gets locked up at some point in his life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to see anyone go to prison, but there's no reason to knowingly tolerate underage players. The existence of underage players gives every Puritanical, hysterical poker opponent the ammunition they need to take shots at online poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

you've got issues with a pretty sizeable % of 2+2 then. edit: eh maybe not a big % currently, but a large % of them at some point.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
How many of you are actually against <18 y/o's playing poker? Because if we seriously try and make an issue of this, we're fighting a losing battle. That's an issue for parents to monitor, not the sites. What way could they possibly regulate this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely "against it"; I won't speculate as to how to enforce the ban, but the existence of underage players is a terrible black eye for everyone involved.