do i call on the turn w flush draw?

[hamnegger]

Full Tilt Poker Game #2853612312: $28,000 Guarantee (21306897), Table 30 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:35:54 ET - 2007/07/04
Seat 1: The Omaholic (2,925)
Seat 2: BacherVille (775)
Seat 3: Flavery (1,080)
Seat 4: Bullets-One (2,490)
Seat 5: hero (4,960)
Seat 6: xbone666 (2,897)
Seat 7: Andyl1495 (1,795)
Seat 8: da_pipeline (2,493)
Seat 9: shortsctack (960)
da_pipeline posts the small blind of 25
shortsctack posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero[7c 8c]

BacherVille calls 50

hero calls 50
xbone666 calls 50


da_pipeline calls 25
shortsctack checks
*** FLOP *** [9s Qc 9c]
da_pipeline checks
shortsctack checks
BacherVille bets 100
hero calls 100
xbone666 folds
da_pipeline calls 100
shortsctack folds
*** TURN *** [9s Qc 9c] [6s]
da_pipeline checks

BacherVille bets 350
hero calls 350

[s33w33d]

You now have a flush draw AND a straight draw. A couple of calculations:

Good cards: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. So you have 15 cards that are good out of the 46, so, 3:1.

The one thing I hate about paired boards is that it's possible you're drawing dead, specifically the 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] isn't a thrilling card if he has a naked 9. UTG+1 limping, the guy could have almost anything.

The pot on the turn is T550, and he's betting T350 into it, so you're basically getting very good odds here, calling T350 into a pot which will be T1,250 after the money is in.

But there's a problem: Look at how much Bacherville has. He started the hand with T775, and he's invested T550 into the hand, leaving him with T225 behind. He's going allin on the turn no matter what.

Also - could da_pipeline c/r you? Possible.

I don't mind the call, but you might get blown out of the pot on the turn by da_pipeline.

[PantsOnFire]

I would fold the turn.

You have 15 outs at best which is 33% pot equity. Some of your outs might not be good. The 6c would be bad and a 10 might make someone a higher straight. Even your flush might lose to a higher flush, which looks like the line that da_pipeline is taking. Plus the board is paired. And you know that Bacherville is in to the end so that's another 200 or so chips.

You have lots of BBs and lots of time.

[blockafor]

I definitely call this.

Bacherville's not folding on the river so you'd be putting in 350 to win 1175 (even more if pipeline calls the turn) so that's 23% implied pot odds. I'd give you credit for 14 outs (discrediting the 6c) so that's 30% equity. I don't think the other factors can overcome that 7% overlay, i.e. odds that you don't make the best hand if you hit your straight or flush or the chances that pipeline check-shoves the turn. Plus, this 350 is still a relatively small part of your stack.

[McMelchior]

Please use converter.

What did da_pipeline call behind with on the flop? If he's on a flush draw you're in bad shape.

BacherVille is committing more than half of his stack on the turn. Considering the draw heavy board this makes little sense. Reads would be helpful here. He could easily be on a killer draw like JcTc, or he could be misplaying a KQ type hand, or an A9s or whatever.

I dont like your turn call at all. Your only safe river card is really an off-suit 5.

I think you either have to fold assuming you're behind BacherVille (preferable), or raise to push da-pipeline off a draw/define his hand, and check/fold the river should he call.

[hamnegger]

ok ready here's why i think i made a mistake calling the turn (not theflop). although my draw is definitely live 1)if i make it i may make a boat for the opponent.
2) more importantly my position. im squeezed between 2 players. the player behind me flat overcalled the flop. could be a queen but its more likely a 9. if he has a 9 he's shutting me out on the turn. bc i was muti tbling or reading this forum i missed this detail nad got moved off the draw.

3. implied odds are only ok. im going to win the 1st players chips and thats all. guy behind me is not going to call a flush draw if he has a brain and a queen only but he may pay off a str8.