Very odd min-bet on flop in a 4-bet pot

johnnyrocket · #1 07-01-2007, 04:21 PM

Villain is running at 50/30/1.2, he is min raising preflop constantly and postflop as well. The other 2 callers are running at about 50/12/.8 and just horrific stations. I had no idea what to do on this flop, just calling shows insane weakness and i will probably get bullied off the hand. What do you guys think is the best line here?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($98.50)
CO ($119.45)
Hero ($126.85)
SB ($61.10)
BB ($86)
UTG ($41)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $1, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $8.5, 1 fold, BB calls $7.50, MP calls $7.50, CO raises to $17, Hero calls $6.50, BB calls $6.50, MP calls $6.50.

Flop: ($62.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP checks, CO bets $1.00, Hero ?????

LuckyKid · #2 07-01-2007, 04:26 PM

vs CO i would rasie to 11$ on PF... and shove vs his 3bet... or else fold...

cs3 · #3 07-01-2007, 04:26 PM

call, spike another J on the turn

also PF is pretty meh... just becaue he donk minrasies doesnt mean you should make a smaller than normal 3 bet. 12-15 please.
calling his 4 bet is also meh... its not terrible and i know its only 7 more, but stacks are not deep, you have ZERO fold equity postflop vs this guy, so youre basically hoping to flop a strt or flush. i would like calling better with like 56s

johnnyrocket · #4 07-01-2007, 05:34 PM

i am shocked at these responses, lucky said shove vs his 3 bet, he never 3 bet, u mean his 4 bet? this is a tight hand to do this with 2 others in

cs... preflop may be a little off but not much. Idk how you can possibly tell me to fold to his 4 bet when its 6 dollars to me to win 50, thats horrific advice

can some others please weigh in on the decision here postflop facing his min bet

i also have tons of fold equity vs this guy, he has shown to fold alot and be weak with his small bets often, not sure if i mentioned that

cs3 · #5 07-02-2007, 07:22 AM

i didnt say PF is an auto fold - i said its meh... youre getting yourself into a lot of [censored] spots with AJ calling a 4 bet. the fact that there will likely be a huge multiway pot makes it ok.

pushing sucks. none of these donks are ever folding a K (and lol at folding anything better than that). are you hoping one of them folds exactly QQ??? think about what a push accomplishes.
calling is fine because those donks are weak passive calling stations. theyre the exact opposite of the type ofplayer who would bluff becasue he sees your call as being weak. they probably dont even think about what your means

its true that your PF 3 bet was just a little smaller than it should be, but it made a huge difference in how this hand played out. raising more, or just calling the inital raise, are both better options.

Rainclouds · #6 07-02-2007, 07:57 AM

Preflop: calling this 4-bet with AJs is good as long as you have the discipline to fold on A72 type flops. When you can dodge that and go for 2pair/trips/straights/flushes a call is +EV imo.

Postflop: well this is obviously not the flop you wanted and BB/MP have to act after your decision. I would just call the retarded bet and hope to see a turn. I would assume you are behind here vs one of 3 villains. They are stations and they are not folding, and you are already behind vs a RANDOM broadway hand fwiw:

Board: 7d Ks Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 48.074% 45.30% 02.78% 53814 3297.50 { AhJh }
Hand 1: 51.926% 49.15% 02.78% 58391 3297.50 { TT+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

Elverian · #7 07-02-2007, 08:33 AM

I'd flat call the initial flop raise.
As played, call the flop hoping for something exceptional to hit.

To the $1 postflop bet, I'd raise half pot heads up, but the active players behind in this case would make the flat call sensible.