2 hands FTP nl100, somewhat confused

johnnyrocket · #1 08-01-2007, 03:36 PM

No stats on villain, I cant see him not raising this turn with an 8 although he might, i think his hand range is a PP now, when the king hits the river what is the line we like here? I think most of his PP range is above us, but with a higher pair he may 3 bet PF for position or raise this flop which has me confused.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($141.70)
SB ($99)
BB ($142.65)
UTG ($100)
Hero ($109.35)
CO ($104.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($8.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, Button calls $4.

Turn: ($16.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($36.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $18, Button calls $18.

Final Pot: $72.50

Villain is 17/10.5/4/200

he just 3 bet me the hand before from the SB when i opened UTG, i folded, this very next hand he 3 bets me again. Opinions on all streets please, if i call this PF i dont like just c/f'ing a dry flop like this, does neone raise to try to push him out with overs? I think that play is prolly too spewy.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($136.90)
Button ($133)
SB ($140.45)
BB ($104.85)
Hero ($106.30)
MP ($115.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, Button raises to $12, 2 folds, Hero calls $8.50.

Flop: ($25.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $14, Hero calls $14.

Turn: ($53.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $53.50

Casper05 · #2 08-01-2007, 03:45 PM

1) The turn bet sucks, either rep an OP or c/f. The 8 isn't really a good card to double barell on imo..to villain with 55/77/99-JJ or whatever it makes it even less likely that we have an 8, and we'd def bet more with an OP.

On the river- if you're going to bet, make it 26+. The only thing your bet folds out is 56. I know you think the K is a scare card, but you arent repping it so it doesn't really matter.

2) eh, this is fine.

johnnyrocket · #3 08-01-2007, 03:47 PM

thanks casp, yea i had a tough time in hand one, tons of opponents float these flops constantly with air to steal the turn, thats why i led the turn again

Hince · #4 08-01-2007, 03:53 PM

Hand one, I am much more likely to c/c the turn than bet it. He never folds a better hand but he may try to bluff the turn with over cards. You definately aren't representing an OP, or an 8 with that bet. The river I would bet more, or just give up.

Had you checked the turn. This river bet would be a lot better (although I would still bet more).

2)I play it the same.

JemY · #5 08-01-2007, 03:59 PM

1st hand :
You bet too little all streets. You didn't even bet half the pot on the flop.. I wouldn't even be surprised if villain showed up with KQ or something here, and you would have deserved it! You're basically asking him to build the pot when you don't want him to call.
Make it 6 on the flop, either give up on the 8h (it is unlikely that you hold it given the utg+1 pfr), or bet 13-15 : if you bet the turn you're basically repping an overpair, and betting weak on the flop like you did is suspicious (do you really bet under half the pot when you have AA in this situation?)
If you wanna fire a 3rd barrel on the river and represent AK in a last desperate attempt to win the pot, MAKE THE BET BIGGER IF YOU WANT HIM TO BELIEVE YOU!
The only possible draw on the flop is 56, which is not very likely since you hold 66, thus he most probably has a PP or two big cards. Thus betting the turn achieves nothing since he's not likely to be drawing, and the only hands that call you are hands that have you beat.
My guess is he showed up with 77,99 or KQ

Hand 2:
Fine conservative play to avoid variance. With an AF of 4 I would expect villain to 2nd barrel most turn cards if you call. Do you plan on folding if a diamond / king / ace card hit? If you are going to fold no matter what card comes and you have history showing that he is going to bet the turn more often than not, you can just fold the flop. Raising doesn't achieve a lot, usually people show up with real hands when 3betting pf twice in a row (and his stats are really nitty). They know it could annoy people and fear being played back at, thus you're crushed most of the time.
Pretty standard hand where you lose to agression/scary board. Deal with it.

Hand 1 is horrible, Hand 2 is fine

johnnyrocket · #6 08-01-2007, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1st hand :
You bet too little all streets. You didn't even bet half the pot on the flop.. I wouldn't even be surprised if villain showed up with KQ or something here, and you would have deserved it! You're basically asking him to build the pot when you don't want him to call.
Make it 6 on the flop, either give up on the 8h (it is unlikely that you hold it given the utg+1 pfr), or bet 13-15 : if you bet the turn you're basically repping an overpair, and betting weak on the flop like you did is suspicious (do you really bet under half the pot when you have AA in this situation?)
If you wanna fire a 3rd barrel on the river and represent AK in a last desperate attempt to win the pot, MAKE THE BET BIGGER IF YOU WANT HIM TO BELIEVE YOU!
The only possible draw on the flop is 56, which is not very likely since you hold 66, thus he most probably has a PP or two big cards. Thus betting the turn achieves nothing since he's not likely to be drawing, and the only hands that call you are hands that have you beat.
My guess is he showed up with 77,99 or KQ

Hand 2:
Fine conservative play to avoid variance. With an AF of 4 I would expect villain to 2nd barrel most turn cards if you call. Do you plan on folding if a diamond / king / ace card hit? If you are going to fold no matter what card comes and you have history showing that he is going to bet the turn more often than not, you can just fold the flop. Raising doesn't achieve a lot, usually people show up with real hands when 3betting pf twice in a row (and his stats are really nitty). They know it could annoy people and fear being played back at, thus you're crushed most of the time.
Pretty standard hand where you lose to agression/scary board. Deal with it.

Hand 1 is horrible, Hand 2 is fine

[/ QUOTE ]

yea thanks guys, i agree that i think i butchered Hand 1, and JeMy, hand 2 i was going to c/r or open shove a low diamond or blank, i planned on c/f'ing any queen, king or ace