let's get the facts straight: poker makes money

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
Years before the Moneymaker era poker was the loss-leader of the casino. Just as the local grocery store sells their milk at a loss to draw people in the doors the casinos would maintain the games and the poker rooms to draw players into the room in hopes that these players will gamble in the other more profitable areas. At the time the rake was required to get the casino closer to the break even point not to necessarily provide a profit.



[/ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[bkkdude]

in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room.

you guys r hilarious.

look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker.

and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room.

you guys r hilarious.

look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker.

and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what your point is...what has that got to do with the matter under discussion, may I ask?

Does anyone think that Mirage poker room ran for ~10 years before Chris Moneymaker arrived on the scene, yet didn't manage to show a profit during all those years? Or that Commerce and Bicycle Club don't make a TON of money off poker?

A full (or nearly full) running poker table pulls in over $100 per hour for the house. Do the math and please explain how expenses are greater than that?

"Loss leader" is not the right way to look at poker because it is not a loss for the house. At most it is just less profitable than they might otherwise earn if they could more effectively otherwise utilize that available space. For some casinos, poker might not be so great because their space or resources are severely limited, or because they don't get many customers for it. For other casinos, it is just additional profit to add to the take from table games and/or slots.

If you own a fine and profitable restaurant, and at the checkout counter where people pay their bill you decide to add a glass case and offer for sale some cartons of fancy chocolates, mints and cigars under glass, that doesn't mean you are losing money on the extra items. Yes, it may take up some extra room and it will delay the checkout hostess a bit, but it is still extra profit: it just probably isn't as profitable as serving a Chateaubriand dinner for four. But unless you are severely limited for space or hired help, you might as well be selling both as long as the market will support it.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in vegas the majority of people dont choose which casino to go to coz of its poker room.

you guys r hilarious.

look at it this way how many, percentage wise, go to vegas to play poker.

and of this small amount how many take entourages....lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what your point is...what has that got to do with the matter under discussion, may I ask?

Does anyone think that Mirage poker room ran for ~10 years before Chris Moneymaker arrived on the scene, yet didn't manage to show a profit during all those years? Or that Commerce and Bicycle Club don't make a TON of money off poker?

A full (or nearly full) running poker table pulls in over $100 per hour for the house. Do the math and please explain how expenses are greater than that?

"Loss leader" is not the right way to look at poker because it is not a loss for the house. At most it is just less profitable than they might otherwise earn if they could more effectively otherwise utilize that available space. For some casinos, poker might not be so great because their space or resources are severely limited, or because they don't get many customers for it. For other casinos, it is just additional profit to add to the take from table games and/or slots.

If you own a fine and profitable restaurant, and at the checkout counter where people pay their bill you decide to add a glass case and offer for sale some cartons of fancy chocolates, mints and cigars under glass, that doesn't mean you are losing money on the extra items. Yes, it may take up some extra room and it will delay the checkout hostess a bit, but it is still extra profit: it just probably isn't as profitable as serving a Chateaubriand dinner for four. But unless you are severely limited for space or hired help, you might as well be selling both as long as the market will support it.

[/ QUOTE ]

There were a number of rooms (not the big rooms) that did lose money. Those days are gone for the time being.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[SenatorKevin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[/ QUOTE ]

The earliest any of those rooms opened was April `05 with MGMs room.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP and issue under debate are about making money or not, not about making the most money or not.

[Abe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[/ QUOTE ]




[/ QUOTE ]

Most of todays NL kids think Moneymaker started poker -- and anyway they were probably not playing casino poker WAY back in 2002.

These 3 casinos all DID have poker prior to 2002, but had closed them. Caesars in about 1990 and the other two about 2001. (LV players, please add any correct facts here)

Many poker rooms were closed in the "poker UN-boom" of 2000 - 2001. Harrahs LV closed their creepy little room and used the space for a gift shop. In fact Harrahs was closing poker rooms all over the country. Also in LV, the Rio closed their poker room and I'm sure there were others.

But the good rooms stayed open and made money --- Bellagio, Mirage, etc.

[Mr Rick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Believe it or not, poker made money for the house back in those "ancient days" before the Chris Moneymaker era, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2002, how many LV strip casinos had poker rooms?
MGM? No.
Venetian? No.
Caesars? No.
Guess why.

It's not about making money. It's about making the most money.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP and issue under debate are about making money or not, not about making the most money or not.



[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. However, the question that follows is why if poker makes money, isn't more care and attention given to improving or expanding poker operations?

Many of the answers have been given in this thread and are extremely important in understanding why it seems nobody cares. I would summarize (and add a few of my own) as follows:
1) Profit from poker is generated differently than other table games and even slots. Player losses don't go directly to the casino.
2) Compared to slots, poker is very labor intensive (and doesn't generate as much income per square foot)
3) IMO, Casinos are afraid their bigger losers will stray to poker tables and dump huge amounts there where the casino gets virtually none of it. Hence having the poker room located in out of the way places serves the casinos.
4) Long waiting lists for poker probably generate more income for the casinos than smaller waiting lists because discouraged players may very well gamble at other kinds of games.
5) Once the decision has been made as to the size of the poker room, it may be hard to expand, even in the desert. Few casinos I have visited seem to have given much thought to how to expand when their rooms are filled to capacity (or when major tournaments are run).