The WSOP does not endorse tournament deals on a liability issue (WTF)

[MrFizzbin]

Every player has the option of taking some portion in Ca$h and some portion in check. Simply have the Brazilians take their checks and turn around and hand you the $$$$ of course they are probably subject to the 30 % withholding, and their efforts to avoid the withholding may have been a motivation for the goofy deal, and the cash and check method wouldn't have helped that.

[BigAlK]

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Casinos are very tighly regulated by the gaming commission and have to abide strictly by their stated rules. Additionally, certain casinos (especially Harrah's) have agreements with the IRS as to the tax treatment of winnings.

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Although possible I doubt gaming commission regulations are the problem. I was in Vegas a few weeks ago and was involved in chops 2 different times (one 2 way and the other 5 way). In both cases the amounts to be "won" by each person were negotiated between all parties (not an exact chip chop) and the casino modified their payouts according to the agreement. While at one of these casinos (Binion's) I observed chops in other tournaments where the remaining players agreed to a chip chop and the casino computed the amounts for them. They were also publishing a list of the results in their Binion's Classic series and I observed at least one list of results where they had a note saying that the payouts for the top x places were the actual payout amounts based on a negotiated chip chop.

Although this is my only personal experience with this I've heard that chops in Vegas tournaments are very common and had the impression that the casino normally supports and assists as needed. It comes down to the difference between casinos with good customer service and those without. The amount of effort that would be required by Harrah's to assist would be minimal.

[tourney guy]

Harrahs, I am sure, will fill out the necessary tax form, (I believe it is 5754) if you want to chop your wins.

The other issue here, and it is important, is the 'truth in advertising' issue.

Whether you agree with it or not, if HET puts out a prize pool based on specific amounts, and the events are filmed or televised, they may feel bound the pay that out.

The answer is then simple - 'If you want to divide the money, we don't care. We are obligated to pay out what we advertised and that is waht we are paying.'

What's more, I played an event at Caesars (HET property) and we were able to chop the cash no problem.

WSOP, with the additional TV element and potential IRS scrutiny, may simply adopt a 'pay as it states' policy.

NickMPK is on to something, and I wouldn't be comparing other tournaments to HET.

Finally, for one to say ' Although this is my only personal experience with this I've heard that chops in Vegas tournaments are very common and had the impression that the casino normally supports and assists as needed' is a little ignorant.

The standard line is usually 'We don't talk about chops until a player/players ask for them.'

Casinos are neutral, and rightfully so, on chopping and dealmaking.

[Silent A]

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How hard would it be for them (WSOP) to hire some lawyers to draw up some basic forms to cover their asses, leaving the players to simple enter the agreed new payouts and sign?

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What's in it for them?

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Supposedly, they're claiming liability concerns. I'm just trying to see if this is the BS is smells like.

I suspect they don't want to admit the real reason: they don't care about the players. Which is understandable for a big company, of course, but it doesn't mean players shouldn't at least call them out for it.

[afadeyi]

they don't want to have to deal with the possibility of collusion. it's as simple as that.

[BigAlK]

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Finally, for one to say ' Although this is my only personal experience with this I've heard that chops in Vegas tournaments are very common and had the impression that the casino normally supports and assists as needed' is a little ignorant.

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I probably would have used a different word than ignorant (maybe "ill informed") but it may well be the case that this isn't as common as I've heard. Maybe the casinos where I saw this are an exception (Binion's and the Orleans). You mention a chop at Cesar's. Did the casiono assist in any way or take the "we don't want to know about it" approach? There is a thread in one of the forums (either this one or one of the MTT forums) about a 35 way chop at the Venetian a few weeks ago. I suspect the casino had to be involved in that one as well.

You obviously have more accurate information on this (maybe a long list of casinos other than Harrah's that don't condone chops). Spill the beans and cure my ignorance.

Your "truth in advertising" coupled with the televised tournament issues seem like a much more legitimate reason for Harrah's approach. Isn't this why WPT tournaments disallow chops?

[PITTM]

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Why should it be their responsibility?

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because people pay a fuckton of money to them for them to organize the event. I think by now we have decided that this is part of organizing the event.

[PokeReader]

This is not correct, be aware if you are swapping percentages, or making a deal the tax situation is significantly more complicated. For a professional your tax accountant can correct the situation at the end of the year, but for an amateur, they will have to eat the additional taxes. The following link explains in detail, and the proceedure you will need to go through, certifing your attempt to have the casino accept the 5754, and their refusal. This will be a hassel for pros, but could really cost amateurs alot, especially if one wins the series, but has a split. They will have a nearly impossible time offloading the tax burden of the other 50%. Thank you again Harrah's. By the way, the FBAR deadline was yesterday, hope everyone filed. If not see posts in legislation.

http://www.taxabletalk.com/archives/...07_05_19.shtml

[StrayBullet]

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When dealmaking is ever considered, the WSOP reps and tournament managers insist on the dealmaking occuring privately, and between the players with the WSOP offering no assistance towards chopping of prizepools.

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I do think deals should be allowed in all tournaments, and that it's fine if these bracelets are bargained for, and I actually don't care if someone involved in a deal "buys" the bracelet as part of the deal (although I think in those cases, it's a little absurd to play the tournament out for show).

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I thought you could officially deal in the WSOP, and when you did they let you deal for the bracelet. If not, what happened in the seniors tournament?
http://www.pokernews.com/live-report...t-holdem/day3/

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I talked with Tony about that specifically when I saw him at the Ventian on Saturday.

[tourney guy]

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Finally, for one to say ' Although this is my only personal experience with this I've heard that chops in Vegas tournaments are very common and had the impression that the casino normally supports and assists as needed' is a little ignorant.

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I probably would have used a different word than ignorant (maybe "ill informed") but it may well be the case that this isn't as common as I've heard. Maybe the casinos where I saw this are an exception (Binion's and the Orleans). You mention a chop at Cesar's. Did the casiono assist in any way or take the "we don't want to know about it" approach? There is a thread in one of the forums (either this one or one of the MTT forums) about a 35 way chop at the Venetian a few weeks ago. I suspect the casino had to be involved in that one as well.

You obviously have more accurate information on this (maybe a long list of casinos other than Harrah's that don't condone chops). Spill the beans and cure my ignorance.

Your "truth in advertising" coupled with the televised tournament issues seem like a much more legitimate reason for Harrah's approach. Isn't this why WPT tournaments disallow chops?

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Big AL - I did not intend 'ignorant' to be a put down, so I am sorry you took it that way.

It is exactly the truth in advertising aspect that causes WSOP and WPT to adopt a 'no chop' rule.

At your local B & M, they want your business, and the audit is internal, with little to no chance of IRS scrutiny.

Large TV tournament is way different, and if I were the WSOP, I do no chops, period. I don't need Irwin R. Shister on my a$$.

One thing, if you request a 5754 from HET, they HAVE TO DO IT!!!!!!!

This is way misunderstood. You give them the partner's SS/ITIN and ID, they HAVE to do a 5754 for you.

As to 'educating' players about chops. No way, it has to be facilitated by the players.