Joe Horn?

[NeBlis]

listen to the end of the entire recording, there is a longer time between when he puts down the phone untill he shoots. Its not alot longer but it is a bit more time than it souds like at first.

he goes outside recocks the gun so they hear it, they say something to him, hes says "you move your dead", then obv they moved. BANG BANG.

After that he calls back he says they came into his yard. And before going outside he says he cant see which way they are going. So if he went outside and they were coming up to his house then what should he assume?

OBV. he had already stated his intent to use deadly force. And again he might have shot too fast but if they were coming into his yard and the move they made looked like drawing a weapon, he should fire .

[DVaut1]

The guy who wrote the bill that Horn apparently thought gave him the right to go shoot unarmed people on his neighbor's property says it doesn't apply to a neighbor's property:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

"Under Texas law, people may use deadly force to protect their own property or to stop arson, burglary, robbery, theft or criminal mischief at night.

But the legislator who authored the "castle doctrine" bill told the Chronicle it was never intended to apply to a neighbor's property, to prompt a "'Law West of the Pecos' mentality or action," said Republican Sen. Jeff Wentworth. "You're supposed to be able to defend your own home, your own family, in your house, your place of business or your motor vehicle."

[GoodCallYouWin]

Meh, if you don't want to get shot don't do B&E's.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
he goes outside recocks the gun so they hear it, they say something to him, hes says "you move your dead", then obv they moved. BANG BANG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe Horn doesn't have the jurisdiction or authority to threaten deadly force on his neighbor's property, and the guy who wrote the Texas law (see post above) never intended the law to function like that.

Just because Horn says "you move, your dead" and the guys move anyway doesn't give Horn carte blanche to fire away.

[DVaut1]

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Yeah, I don't know... They were shot in his yard, less than 15 feet from him. I doubt he had much time for civilities.

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Were these guys even armed?

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They had a crowbar, which was used to break into the house. They were otherwise unarmed, at least according to published reports.

[NeBlis]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because the guy says "you move, your dead" and the guys move anyway doesn't give Horn carte blanche to fire away.


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/agree ... does it matter to you if they were in his yard at that point as he states on the later 911 call?

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
listen to the end of the entire recording, there is a longer time between when he puts down the phone untill he shoots. Its not alot longer but it is a bit more time than it souds like at first.

he goes outside recocks the gun so they hear it, they say something to him, hes says "you move your dead", then obv they moved. BANG BANG.

After that he calls back he says they came into his yard. And before going outside he says he cant see which way they are going. So if he went outside and they were coming up to his house then what should he assume?

OBV. he had already stated his intent to use deadly force. And again he might have shot too fast but if they were coming into his yard and the move they made looked like drawing a weapon, he should fire .

[/ QUOTE ]

None of this really matters. There are three reasons it can be OK to shoot someone:
1) In TX, because someone is committing one of the crimes mentioned in the statute. Even if they were trespassing, they weren't burglarizing his house. No good.
2) Second, self-defense. For this to work, he has to reasonably fear that someone's going to use deadly force against him. Unarmed men + only his testimony = fail. Also, by leaving his house and menacing people with a shotgun, he may lose the right to use deadly force at all.
3) Citizen's arrest. I really don't know much about this, but maybe under TX law he's entitled to use deadly force to effectuate a citizen's arrest. Doesn't matter though, because he never told them they were under arrest, as far as I can tell.

[bills217]

OP, you suck at thread titles. Who else assumed it was NFL wide receiver Joe Horn?

Interesting topic nonetheless.

[DVaut1]

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/agree ... does it matter to you if they were in his yard at that point as he states on the later 911 call?

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These guys were apparently unarmed. If some unarmed people are trespassing on this guy's property, does he have the right to shoot them? I sure hope not, but I suppose I'll plead ignorant to Texas state law on this one.

[tomdemaine]

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/agree ... does it matter to you if they were in his yard at that point as he states on the later 911 call?

[/ QUOTE ]

These guys were apparently unarmed. If some unarmed people are trespassing on this guy's property, does he have the right to shoot them? I sure hope not, but I suppose I'll plead ignorant to Texas state law on this one.

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law =/= right

I don't have a huge deal of sympathy for people breaking and entering however I don’t think that it's moral to kill at zero range people who are ostensibly unarmed. The mentality of someone who goes out of his way to look for someone to shoot (not that that necessarily happened in this case) is a very very disturbing one.