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#21
09-19-2007, 01:52 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
WOw, this is really disappointing. I was expecting a Rodney King style beat down and got ... well, nothing that I could really describe as brutality. Here's what we know for a fact as we can see it on the video. * Police deny the rev immediate access to the hearing but tell him that he needs to go to the back of the line. * Rev says no, I already waited through the line, I am in line, let me in. * Policeman says, you are not in line, go to the back of the line. * "Everybody says I was in line. I have a right as a citizen to be in line." etc. * Policaman gives him an ultimatum. Go to the back of the line or leave or you will be arrested. * More arguing with rev getting louder. * Police attempt to escort rev out of the building. * Rev makes a Ladamian Tomlinson style dive for the doorway. Police defensive line holds up and takes rev down. * Rev is subdued, not pepper sprayed, not tased. * Police try to get rev up and he says "my leg is broken" * Police call for a wheelchair. To be blunt, of course the rev is going to make this into a bigger deal (i.e. conspiracy) than it was. Once the argument got going, I don't see any real other choice the police had. They handled it remarkably well, first trying to de-escalate the issue, offering the rev the option of returning to the back of the line, trying to reason with him, trying to convince him to leave or go to the back of the line. [/ QUOTE ] so are you saying the black guy is lying when he said he got permission in advance to exit line/do interview and come back, or are you saying the police changed their mind about that, or are you saying it was a misunderstanding/miscommunication? do you know how long he waited in line after coming back into the line? ( i dont) why was the woman told she couldn't come in, then they changed mind and she could come in? 
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#22
09-19-2007, 03:13 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] WOw, this is really disappointing. I was expecting a Rodney King style beat down and got ... well, nothing that I could really describe as brutality. Here's what we know for a fact as we can see it on the video. * Police deny the rev immediate access to the hearing but tell him that he needs to go to the back of the line. * Rev says no, I already waited through the line, I am in line, let me in. * Policeman says, you are not in line, go to the back of the line. * "Everybody says I was in line. I have a right as a citizen to be in line." etc. * Policaman gives him an ultimatum. Go to the back of the line or leave or you will be arrested. * More arguing with rev getting louder. * Police attempt to escort rev out of the building. * Rev makes a Ladamian Tomlinson style dive for the doorway. Police defensive line holds up and takes rev down. * Rev is subdued, not pepper sprayed, not tased. * Police try to get rev up and he says "my leg is broken" * Police call for a wheelchair. To be blunt, of course the rev is going to make this into a bigger deal (i.e. conspiracy) than it was. Once the argument got going, I don't see any real other choice the police had. They handled it remarkably well, first trying to de-escalate the issue, offering the rev the option of returning to the back of the line, trying to reason with him, trying to convince him to leave or go to the back of the line. [/ QUOTE ] so are you saying the black guy is lying when he said he got permission in advance to exit line/do interview and come back, or are you saying the police changed their mind about that, or are you saying it was a misunderstanding/miscommunication? do you know how long he waited in line after coming back into the line? ( i dont) why was the woman told she couldn't come in, then they changed mind and she could come in? [/ QUOTE ] Those sound like questions for you to answer if you want to prove that the police were in the wrong. As for your first question I would tend to believe that it was a miscommunication if he was indeed told he would be allowed back in the line.
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#23
09-19-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
As for your first question I would tend to believe that it was a miscommunication if he was indeed told he would be allowed back in the line. [/ QUOTE ] well don't you think there's something wrong when a simple miscommunication results in 6 cops tackling an old man?
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#24
09-19-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As for your first question I would tend to believe that it was a miscommunication if he was indeed told he would be allowed back in the line. [/ QUOTE ] well don't you think there's something wrong when a simple miscommunication results in a man yelling and trying to lunge past police officers after they give him an ultimatum and he gets tackled by 6 cops? [/ QUOTE ] FYP and yes there is a problem with that.
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#26
09-19-2007, 07:31 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] look at the tape. <font color="blue">the officers were gently manhandling him and escorting him out</font>, <font color="red">he resisted,</font> <font color="blue">and was jumped on.</font> the point being <font color="blue">they put their hands on him first,</font> and <font color="red">he tried to get them off of him.</font> [/ QUOTE ] Do you understand that the things in blue are generally legal and the things in red are generally not legal? Whether you like it or not, the way it works in our society is that cops have special police powers, and when they put their hands on you, it is not necessarily assault. What is the alternative in this situation, cops attempt to escort him out, he resists, cops give up and go eat a donut? [/ QUOTE ] This seems like all lies, have you got any support for this? Police can "put their hands on me" and "escort me" places for no reason? Are you sure?
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#27
09-19-2007, 07:41 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] look at the tape. <font color="blue">the officers were gently manhandling him and escorting him out</font>, <font color="red">he resisted,</font> <font color="blue">and was jumped on.</font> the point being <font color="blue">they put their hands on him first,</font> and <font color="red">he tried to get them off of him.</font> [/ QUOTE ] Do you understand that the things in blue are generally legal and the things in red are generally not legal? Whether you like it or not, the way it works in our society is that cops have special police powers, and when they put their hands on you, it is not necessarily assault. What is the alternative in this situation, cops attempt to escort him out, he resists, cops give up and go eat a donut? [/ QUOTE ] This seems like all lies, have you got any support for this? Police can "put their hands on me" and "escort me" places for no reason? Are you sure? [/ QUOTE ] Of course they can. Perhaps they can't in some technical sense that will never be enforced, but functionally they have this ability and then some. The problem is there is no way to resist. If you resist an unjust arrest you end up getting your leg broken and being guilty of the crime "resisting arrest" even if it's later determined that the cops had no right to be doing that in the first place. This is partly because there is a collective mindset that cooperation with policemen is required of you no matter what they might be doing. Like in the other video being posted when they kid was getting tasered and the crowd was totally complacent. I definitely don't judge the crowd for it because if they had done something about it they'd all be arrested to! Say there is a case where instead of the police tasering the victim or breaking his leg they're choking him. I'd like to think that if somebody stepped in and put a stop to it they wouldn't suffer repercussions but I'm extremely doubtful that it would transpire that way. Police have carte blanch to taser kids for being douchebags and break old men's legs in front of crowds of people; imagine what they get away with when there are no witnesses but their victims.
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#28
09-19-2007, 08:33 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
The police did absolutely nothing wrong in their handling of him, as far as him falling down or being tackled, whichever it was. I'm not even sure you can tell from the video whether the officer tackled him, or if the officer was first tripped up when he lurched forward, and then just took him along for the ride.
The question here is if the officers had any business forcibly escorting him out, or arresting him, whichever it is they were trying to or felt justified in doing when the officer first put his hands on him. If the officer who put his hands on his back and shoulder was justified in doing so, this justifies all the further action by the police.
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#29
09-19-2007, 08:43 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
man yelling and trying to lunge past police officers after they give him an ultimatum and he gets tackled by 6 cops? [/ QUOTE ] ok, give me the time in video when he "lunges". are you sure that he wasn't being pulled down by the police?
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#30
09-19-2007, 08:44 PM
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Re: here\'s a police brutality deal for real
[ QUOTE ]
The question here is if the officers had any business forcibly escorting him out, or arresting him, whichever it is they were trying to or felt justified in doing when the officer first put his hands on him. If the officer who put his hands on his back and shoulder was justified in doing so, this justifies all the further action by the police. [/ QUOTE ] I think we're all agreed the talking stopped and force started with the police grabbing the black guy.
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