I get out of line: hand 1

surfdoc · #1 07-10-2007, 09:37 PM

Decent Oceans daytime 20 game. The villian in this hand is Chuck. He is a pretty awful player with mainly loose passive tendencies and some occasional random aggression thrown in. He is a pretty big target in the game overall and has a healthy fear of me sometimes saying out loud stuff like "oh boy, doc 3 bet look out" before calling 3 cold with JTo.

3 limpers including chuck on the button and I toss in 2 chips from the SB with Qd2d. 5 ways to the flop.

Flop: 7d3d3h.

I check planning on calling or raising but it gets checked through.

Turn: 7c (7d3d3h)

I stab at it and plan to probably c/f the river UI if called. It gets folded all the way to Chuck who raises. I change plans and 3 bet quickly out of the rack in tempo with one of those whole stack minus 4 chip moves. I plan to bet most rivers unless I get some visual info not to.

Can you feel me?

HOWMANY · #2 07-10-2007, 09:40 PM

The last time I did this against some retard with a [censored] eating grin on his face like he thought he was outplaying me by bluffing he decided to "see what he has" on the river and call me with A high.

rafiki · #3 07-10-2007, 09:44 PM

if he's bad enough to call 3 cold with JTo, is he bad enough to call with A high here on almost any river ? I'm just worried about trying to bluff someone who won't fold.
Specially with the off chance he's got a 3 and you have no redraw. I guess I'd like it a lot more if the board isn't double paired.

rafiki · #4 07-10-2007, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The last time I did this against some retard with a [censored] eating grin on his face like he thought he was outplaying me by bluffing he decided to "see what he has" on the river and call me with A high.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol I took too long to type my response...what he said....

ssmallz · #5 07-10-2007, 09:45 PM

If he's willing to call 3 cold w/JTo he's the type that will call w/a lot of weak hands b/c "he knows he's beat but just has to keep you honest". He might do this with a weak PP here like 66. I'd like this move more against your typical weak tight vegas/ac pro who knows how to laydown a hand rather than the loose passive fish target.

surfdoc · #6 07-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Okay guys, i think I may have gone overboard with the JTo thing. It was just to make a point that he doesn't have much discipline, not that he will call any and all bets with no hope of winning.

The Funky Llama · #7 07-10-2007, 11:14 PM

Surfdoc,

I like your 3bet here. It's very unlikely he has a 7 since he checked the flop last to act, and not too likely he'd slowplay a 3 with this many people in the pot. If he does have a 3, he might just call the turn to slowplay again or in fear of you having a 7.

I think the type of player who would raise this turn donk with ace high is the type who would have bet the flop when it was checked to him if he had ace high. So I think it is unlikely that he has ace high when he raises you. Even if he does have ace high, there is a chance he will lay it down or that you will improve on the river (you have a ton of outs against ace high especially when you include split outs). The fact that he didn't raise preflop also weights his hand range away from ace high a bit. I think he will have something like J9 enough of the time to make this play in a pot of this size.

It is incredibly unlikley imo that he has something like 66. There just aren't many players who would both check the flop last to act with 66 and raise the turn. Those actions are kind of inconsistent.

andyfox · #8 07-10-2007, 11:23 PM

Sure doesn't seem like he can have anything except for quads.

Maliant · #9 07-10-2007, 11:25 PM

I don't really like your line, he is LP and raising this dry board.

surfdoc · #10 07-10-2007, 11:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Surfdoc,

I like your 3bet here. It's very unlikely he has a 7 since he checked the flop last to act, and not too likely he'd slowplay a 3 with this many people in the pot. If he does have a 3, he might just call the turn to slowplay again or in fear of you having a 7.

I think the type of player who would raise this turn donk with ace high is the type who would have bet the flop when it was checked to him if he had ace high. So I think it is unlikely that he has ace high when he raises you. Even if he does have ace high, there is a chance he will lay it down or that you will improve on the river (you have a ton of outs against ace high especially when you include split outs). The fact that he didn't raise preflop also weights his hand range away from ace high a bit. I think he will have something like J9 enough of the time to make this play in a pot of this size.

It is incredibly unlikley imo that he has something like 66. There just aren't many players who would both check the flop last to act with 66 and raise the turn. Those actions are kind of inconsistent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your thinking is pretty much in line with mine. He is pretty bad but I don't know if he is bad enough to give free cards to gutshots and diamond draws on this flop. I don't think he would ever check that flop with 66 in position. I also doubt very much that he raises a 3 since I can easily have a 7 that missed my flop CR.