serious question

[Tuff_Fish]

Assume for a few moments that the heavens opend up and showered you with totally legalized moderately taxed online poker.

There are no barriers to entry save filling requirements for security and integrity.

Advertising is legal and common. Competition is fierce.

Now, a dark angel has cursed you and you are forbidden to ever actually play online. Immediate family members and close friends are similarily cursed.

BUT, you are given the means to open an online poker site of your own.

Put yourself outside your current situation, and try to imagine being in the situation I have described.

If, while running your very own poker site, would you allow any or all of the following. Please give your reasoning why.

This is a serious question, I am trying to construct some talking points to present lawmakers at all levels of government.

Would you:

Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

Allow unlimited datamining?

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards?

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?

Try to remember, you are not the player, you are the owner. The start up costs were a couple of million, and there is unfettered competition.

BTW, I am disgusted with how little the PPA has done, while I can do plenty in my spare time.

Thanks,

Tuff

[DavidNB]

Allow you allow multitabling? yes
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited? 4

Allow unlimited datamining? no

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? yes

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. allow

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? no

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? allow

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?no change

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it? yes

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets? allow all

[cardcounter0]

Allow you allow multitabling? Yes.
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited? 4 would be a good limit. Many people like to play multiple tables so they don't get bored. More than 4 and you have the multitable HUD BOT grinders.

Allow unlimited datamining? NO.

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? Of course.

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. Sure. PAHUD, they can only use the history of people they have played or are playing against.

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? Yes.

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? Many casual players like buddy lists, so they can find their friends, and like most sites allow the option for players to make themselves invisible to buddy lists.

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?
Both. Fast tables and slow table options.

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?
I think player fund transfers only lead to trouble.

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?
Accept anything and everything, including food stamps.
I think much of the popularity of Party was the ability for fish to get money on and off the site easily without hassle.
You are going to have to eat some credit card fraud, but with good IP monitoring, should be able to keep it to a minimum.

[spatne]

I'm bored so I'll play along...

[ QUOTE ]
Would you:

Allow you allow multitabling?
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I'd probably cap it at 4-6 tables. I think that strikes a good balance.

[ QUOTE ]
Allow unlimited datamining?

[/ QUOTE ]

No datamining. You've got to be dealt cards to get a HH.

[ QUOTE ]
Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes to PA Hud and its clones. Basically anything that draws from player's own PT data is okay. No to Poker Edge and other programs that use centralized DBs

[ QUOTE ]
Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if players ask for this. I'm indifferent about it. I'd certainly include the ability to hide oneself. That only seems fair.

[ QUOTE ]
Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd stick with whatever the standard is. I think that Full Tilt, for example gives enough time to think without it being torturous.

[ QUOTE ]
Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Allow it unless I could think of a good reason to forbid it. I would add a safety mechanism of some sort. Maybe e-mail confirmation or an added password so that if your account got hacked there would be one extra security measure for the hacker to overcome. It would be slower but safer.

[ QUOTE ]
Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely no credit. Debit/e-wallet/check/cash only. Allowing people to gamble on credit is irresponsible, and while I'm sure it might affect my bottom line, I don't care.

[ericp42]

High number of Multitable, but not infinite. More tables = more rake, brisk play = more rake.

No datamine. If I was Fish & Game, I wouldn't allow dynamite fishing, either. This implies restricted HandHx too.

Stat helpers and displays, ok. Hey, pencils are for cavemen.

Offer fast and slow tables.

Money movement -- no. As a player, it is so reasonable. As a room, it raises accounting, tax, terrorism, and theft/liability issues.

I'd love to take CC, both for competition issues, and service to clients. Reality? No. I'd rather not rack up too many chargebacks and bad press with the Govt by taking CC.

[Gregg777]

nm

[JJDylan]

Allow you allow multitabling? yes
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited? 4...allows the 2+2 types to multi-table but not so much that the fish are devoured at record rates giving my games a bad rep.

Allow unlimited datamining? no

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? yes

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. yes

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? yes, probably just the general stats you find everywhere

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? yes

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal? moderate...fast enough where the game isnt slowed down much, but slow enough to give time to think

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it? allow, but it would probably be stricter/more closely watched than on most current sites

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets? allow as many secure options as possible

[Mondogarage]

This is a serious question, I am trying to construct some talking points to present lawmakers at all levels of government.

Would you:

Allow you allow multitabling? Yes

How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited? 4. With a variety of different types of play (MTT, SNG, Omaha v. HE, etc.), seems unreasonable to only allow one game at a time. However, concentrated multi-tabling (8, 10, 12, etc.) gives off a veneer of being a boiler room holding a handful of sharks just looking for victims, and gives a bad perception to outsiders of online poker.

Allow unlimited datamining? Absolutely not. Poker is a game of limited information and skill, and was not built on being able to download stats as a bot while away from your keyboard, just so you know the "correct" play in any situtation regardless of the fact you've never sat down with that player. It's inappropriate that you should be able to know how someone you've never played with before, played their last 3000 hands of $2/4. And, frankly, if you're trying to sell poker as a game of skill, that, by definition, is an argument against datamining.

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? - Yes, please see above. This isn't the WSOP on TV for entertainment. You don't get your own pocket cam, so to speak.

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. - Forbid PAHUD unless and until it's incorporated directly into the site's software. A tech savvy shark shouldn't get to have yet an additional advantage over Joe Goldfish just becuase he's read 2+2 and knows there are plug in software pieces out there. And that's not how you actually become a talented poker player. Also, see argument above on datamining, generally.

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? - Sure, because everyone on the site has equal access to that information from the get go, and it's no different than, say, observing a couple live tables in a casino, while you try to decide where to sign up. Perfectly reasonable.

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? - There is nothing wrong with buddy lists, or a way to find tables of players you've done well off before, provided it's built directly into the interface, where everyone can use it. Again, it's no different that scounting a couple of known fish at the felt and trying to get a seat at that table.

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal? - I'd prefer a bit of a sliding time scale...if your FT in a big MTT, with lots of stake, I don't think you should only have 30-45 seconds or whatever to make a decision. As the stakes (or stages in a tourney) go up, players should be able to take a bit more time, but only a reasonable amount.

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it? - Free market economy. If it can be done safely and securely, there's no reason why this should be forbidden.

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets? - Players should be be allowed to buy in with credit cards, or with other money they do not already have. If you don't have it, you don't have it to gamble with. Is your offline bookie up in Brooklyn gonna take your MasterCard after he layed you 10 points on the Dolphins, and you lost? Or will he just break your legs. We're trying to fight against perceptions of gamboooling problems here, not help feed those perceptions. And, frankly, knowing how many college students are funding their PS accounts with college loans, and such, I don't want my tax dollars to have to go bail out your a$$es when you default on your student loans after going busto.

BTW, I am disgusted with how little the PPA has done, while I can do plenty in my spare time. -- Sorta agreed, though I don't have a stake in the PPA. Their "update" was nothing more than a fluff message, designed to try to throw off the questions. In the meantime, they have no actual stated plan or tactics, only a goal of some nebulous form of protecting poker. No thanks. Players are not their constituency, only the businesses who make their living off the players.

Thanks for posting this. Thought provoking.

(PS -- before the haters snark at me for my stance on PT/PAHUD/etc., I don't personally care whether you use it or not, though if you have to rely on PAHUD to tell you how to react to my raise, then you really can't claim poker to be a game of skill, can you? Not when it's a game of plug-in downloads and data-mining. And I do recognize where PT can help a player identify their own leaks.)

[ClubChamp04]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume for a few moments that the heavens opend up and showered you with totally legalized moderately taxed online poker.

There are no barriers to entry save filling requirements for security and integrity.

Advertising is legal and common. Competition is fierce.

Now, a dark angel has cursed you and you are forbidden to ever actually play online. Immediate family members and close friends are similarily cursed.

BUT, you are given the means to open an online poker site of your own.

Put yourself outside your current situation, and try to imagine being in the situation I have described.

If, while running your very own poker site, would you allow any or all of the following. Please give your reasoning why.

This is a serious question, I am trying to construct some talking points to present lawmakers at all levels of government.

Would you:

Allow you allow multitabling? Yes to multitabling, but 4 max
How many? 2, 4, 8, Unlimited?

Allow unlimited datamining? NO DATAMINING, this is a cheap win to win at poker imo

Restrict hand histories to hands in which the player was dealt cards? Yes to block the dataminers

Allow PAHUD? Forbid PAHUD type programs. Forbid. Lets play some real poker

Show table statistics in the lobby like % players to the flop, average size of pot? Yes, I see no problem with this

Have a "buddy" list? Forbid a "buddy" list and take steps to prevent one being used? Allow buddy list

Have tight requirements on time to act, or be liberal? stars setup is perfect(except for the added time for ppl who disconnect)

Allow players to transfer funds, or forbid it? Allow

Allow players to buy in with credit cards, or allow only debit cards or transfers from the dozens of e-wallets? Allow everything

Try to remember, you are not the player, you are the owner. The start up costs were a couple of million, and there is unfettered competition.

BTW, I am disgusted with how little the PPA has done, while I can do plenty in my spare time.

Thanks,

Tuff

[/ QUOTE ]

[jsnipes28]

WRT to observed HH think of how good that is for a site like FTP where really big games often run and observers love to be able to see the pros play. While I see what people are saying regarding observed HH and datamining, you must also think of the positive benefits that a site recieves from them as well.

Many causual players love to play their one table of 100nl and sweat and look at the HH of the 200/400nl game going at the same time.