Tough PLO hand, deep - Page 4

CrushinFelt · #31 10-10-2007, 09:45 AM

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If someone can tell me why the [censored] anyone would peel the flop with QQJx maybe I'll agree it's a fold, but for now I think it's a call and not that close.

I do agree that a flop c/r is better than leading though and potting the turn is iffy too.

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OP's donking range can ("should" might be a better word) easily include 346; A34; 678; etc. so he could be peeling hoping OP will want a free card on the turn and, since the Td is essentially a blank, he could easily call again on the turn (especially if he picked up the flush draw).

On the river you're likely never checking with the nuts so he can basically rule that out of your holdings which does make this more of a call.

His hand is very polarized here, but I think I fold (its very close) because even though a bluff is so easy for him to do here, I think I need more of a read to call this down and of course 678x is definitely part of his range as well.

CrushinFelt · #32 10-10-2007, 09:52 AM

And to back up RT, I completely disagree with Tx about preflop. Folding this preflop is laughable.

Edit: Just read tx's other post and I definitely agree with this
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i think he can peel here with so many hands it's nearly pointless trying to assign him a sfic range on the flop.

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This is why the river is less of a call.... as I said in my previous post, OP's donking range includes so many draws that floating is ez

The rest of tex's posts I don't really agree with because we need to be playing our draws/sets/two pairs fairly similarly otherwise we'll be too predictable.

Ok, that's enough edits... back to managing rissssk

jlocdog · #33 10-10-2007, 09:55 AM

First thought when I viewed the hand was that PF was borderline. I hate to turn discussions into PF decisions as it always seems to attempt to simplify the hand as well as view it in a 20/20 fashion but in PLO/O8 PF plays a much larger role in then holdem (imo anyways).

Saying that, The only way I see him with QQ or JJ after this flop is if it something like JJT9 double suited or something similar. If the read is spot on, then it seems like a no brainer call given his heightened river aggression, overpair holding, and relative position of both of you.

I do want to add that Tex made some very sound points that should not go overlooked in both his posts. I agree with almost everything he wrote from PF-turn. Though I may disagree that the river is a call in this spot the way the hand was played, I am not happy about it and think folding PF, c/r flop (as played) and potting turn (as played) are all correct.

TheRempel · #34 10-10-2007, 11:21 AM

While I agree with tex that readless the river is probably a fold, folding preflop is a [censored] joke.

JP OSU · #35 10-10-2007, 11:28 AM

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While I agree with tex that readless the river is probably a fold, folding preflop is a [censored] joke.

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Thank god a bunch of people finally chimed in on preflop, because I play a good amount of PLO and would never ever under any circumstances fold this hand preflop with a full stack to one raise... ever...

cts · #36 10-10-2007, 12:42 PM

turn play may be a lil iffy but leading the flop is best

raptor517 · #37 10-10-2007, 01:21 PM

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yeah why cant he have QQJx or JJ7x

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are u joking? trambo potted the flop first to act 4-way... peeling QQJx here could only be a misclick

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hahhahahaha at misclick, dude dont you know whats an overpair?? people dont fold in plo, especially on ub. QQJx isnt out of real of possibiliities. i lead flop, im not sure about turn, what you doin to a shove?? i also dont think hes ever betting worse 2 pair, so his range is pretty polarized imo. i dno i think i fold, but im not happy, and i dont hate calling, but i do think id lean towards fold.

Stinger88 · #38 10-10-2007, 02:22 PM

I could see him peeling the flop with KQJ9 or something but do people really with QQJx? I think it's really horrible, but then again people amaze me everyday in PLO so maybe.

DLizzle · #39 10-10-2007, 02:27 PM

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turn play may be a lil iffy but leading the flop is best

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why lead the flop? to me it seems like you're just making a big pot with some crappy two pair and no redraw? are you getting it in if you get raised? I might rather c/f than lead here our hand really isn't that good and will be tough to play if we don't take it down here.

Also, how can he have QQJx here you ask? He has an overpair, he only has to call one bet and he closes the action. case closed. i don't see how one could argue that people don't do this.

The only argument I think is good for calling is that it might be tough to check behind with garbage on the river for him, and since we full potted flop and turn, there's lots of money in there so it might be +EV to call. I happen to disagree with that but I think its a valid argument.

Micturition Man · #40 10-10-2007, 03:33 PM

I fold this preflop and I think the people who find this shocking just play PLO too loose in general.

If you're in a game where people will stack off for 100 BB with AA unimproved or will cbet flops like 456 100% of the time even when their distribution is heavily weighted to big cards and big pairs, then I'm sure OP's hand becomes profitable.

Against solid opponents though this hand is just bad.

There is a huge difference in IO between this hand and a hand like 9876ds, even though in showdown equity these hands tend to be pretty similar versus a big pair/big cards distribution.

Unless opponents are terrible you will rarely stack off in very good shape with OP's hand... I think a lot people are overly conditioned by soft games where IO are highly inflated.

Anyway I guess I like a flop c-rz just because on this flop button will probably bet any overpair while he would probably fold to a lead, but leading obv works too especially with stacks so deep.

Turn should be a check against a solid opponent IMO because it improves a lot of the hands that should have called the flop.

Pretty sure river is a fold on game theory principles (i.e. you will have better hands often enough to fold this one).

Using player reads instead it's closer but it's still a fold imo. Plenty of ways he can have made the non nut straight. The nut straight is a lot less likely but still possible... there are almost always reasonable ways people can show up with the nuts in PLO.

/too long