Play a Hand With the Masters #1 Flop

Lloyd · #1 09-19-2005, 04:48 PM

Note: If you haven't already read, thought about, and hopefully posted about the pre-flop play, you should do so here before reading this thread.

Here is how the hand has played out in real life to our next decision point:

Setup

$10,000 Buy-In Event
Day 1
Blinds 75/150 and will go up to 100/200 on the next hand
Hero has been at the table for about an hour with no unusual play. All players are unknown except for Miami John to his direct left. The CO in this hand has been playing pretty tight.

Relevant Stacks

CO 25,000
Hero 11,500
MJ 13,000
BB 9,800

Pre-Flop
Everyone folds to the CO who limps for T150. Hero is on the button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and raises to T600. MJ calls in the SB for T600, the BB folds, and the CO calls for T600.

Flop
Pot: T1950

T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

MJ checks, CO checks. Action is on the hero.

Do you check or bet (and if so, how much)? Why?

Rduke55 · #2 09-19-2005, 04:59 PM

Not a great flop but it probably didn't hit anyone else. We have overcards and two backdoor draws.
Maybe bet 1200 or so? Represent an overpair?

Lloyd, is the 500 post cutoff for submitting hands or commenting? If it's commenting I'm sorry.

Lloyd · #3 09-19-2005, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lloyd, is the 500 post cutoff for submitting hands or commenting? If it's commenting I'm sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]
No problem at all. I placed an artificial limitation on submitting hands simply because I'd prefer to receive hands other than the ones we see here day in day out, and those who have been posting for awhile are in a better position to know what I'm looking for. It was simply a way to help filter through a bunch of hands that are probably fairly common.

Post away!

br549007 · #4 09-28-2005, 02:40 PM

raise T1500..if this does not fold every one out you are beat or out played

Exitonly · #5 09-19-2005, 05:00 PM

Getting check raised here sucks since there are quite a few cards that come on the turn that help you out some. So i check behind. Maybe if MJ wasn't in the hand i'd try and take it.. but vs two guys i'm just checking here, hopeing to see an A,J,Q,8 or club on the turn.

Rduke55 · #6 09-19-2005, 05:06 PM

I can see your point on checking but we have control of the hand right now and we may be able to take the pot here. We may be able to knock out an overcard to our J as well.
If someone smoothcalls us then we may get a freecard if they check again to us on the turn.
We have to fold to a significant checkraise though.

Exitonly · #7 09-19-2005, 05:11 PM

because we have to fold a checkraise, and we very well may be ahead here, AND we have a good opponent in the BB, and maybe a trapping (thuogh less likely after just calling PF) CO.. i don't think betting here will win it often enough..

But cheecking lets you improve your hand.. like half the deck is going to improve your hand some, but you need to improve before you want t commit significantly more chips.

Rduke55 · #8 09-19-2005, 05:20 PM

It's a benign looking flop. If we are ahead then why not try to get it now instead of if something like a K comes on the turn?
And since so many cards improve our hand I'd like to keep control of the pot because otherwise say an offsuit Q comes and MJ bets the pot or close to it?
Betting here 1) may take it down now, 2) may get us a free card or at least slow down opponents on the turn.

Iconoclastic · #9 09-19-2005, 05:34 PM

I'm happy to see that the original Hero took the same line I would have preflop...anyways

My original range for CO was [JJ-22,A2s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,AQo-A3o,KTo+,QJo,JTo]

After calling a preflop raise with MJ already calling in front of him, the range has not been narrowed at all since CO would have implied odds with any of his preflop holdings. However, with a F of T93 rainbow a Tight player would be willing to call/raise a strong F bet A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF THE TIME, whether with an overpair, a pair of some kind, draw, set, whatever. Now let's deal with MJ...

His range for calling the preflop raise I would put at [22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,AQo +]. That is slightly Tighter than CO's range because he has to worry more about domination with two other players in the hand as well as having the worst position. MJ would be willing to call/raise on a T93 rainbow F about 60% of the time. That doesn't include a stone cold bluff or a read bluff.

So with a player at 45% to fold and another at 40%, a continuation bet is ill-advised. Let's see a Turn. The only bet that can realistically fold out draws and overpairs and decent pairs is a Push, and there's no reason to do that in case someone has a set. There's a good chance a bet will be check-raised here and you have no idea where you stand. Free card please.

Kirkrrr · #10 09-21-2005, 07:05 AM

You don't have control of the hand - a raise on the button after just one limper doesn't convery any great show of strength. I think any good, reasonably aggressive player will check-raise the flop with any two, and you DO have a few outs of hitting a decent draw on the turn. A flop bet would be a total waste of chips.

Kirk