HonestHoldem Terms and Conditions

[RayBornert]

guys,

assuming the population was sufficient
would you play at an online site that had
these terms and conditions
********

HonestHoldem Terms and Conditions

Multiple Accounts

You are allowed to register multiple times at our
site. The first registration is free. Subsequent
registrations cost $10 and must be accompanied by
a $100 deposit before you'll be allowed to use it.
It's in our best interest to encourage deposits.
You can register as many times as you like, we dont
care, as long as you're willing to pay the fee.

Cash only - No credit cards

We do not believe you should gamble on credit.
If you play online then you need to own up to
your responsibilities. We accept cash deposits
only. It's supposed to hurt when you lose and
feel good when you win. You are hereby advised
to play at limits where you can bring 100 big
bets or more to the table such that your risk
of ruin is reduced.

Hand Histories and the Muck

Since the server has access to the entire hand
history, it is not possible to prove that the
muck is indeed 100% secure - i.e. that we did
not share the server side hh with one or more
of your opponents and not you. So at the end
of each hand, the entire server side hh for that
hand will be delivered to each participant in
the hand free of charge.

Hand History requests

You may at any time buy any number of real money
server side hh's for any hand where you did not
participate at the cost of 1c per hh. The reason
we do not offer these for free is that this service
is resource intensive and has a cost associated with it.

Connection Encryption

Due to the fact that we are an internet site, we must
provide encryption for your connection otherwise it is
possible (in theory) for somebody to introduce a network
sniffer between the server and you and learn about your
card information and potentially gain edge over you. The
reality of this encryption feature is that this makes it
entirely impossible to prove that the server is not
colluding with one or more of your opponents by sending them
privileged information such as your cards or future cards.
Therefore you are hereby notified that your only recourse
is to accept, on good faith, that we serve our best interest
by not engaging in such an activity.

Pokerbotting

We fully embrace all forms of artificial intelligence
and you are hereby advised to seek out the best analysis
tools available. Any and all email complaints about
suspsected botting will be summarily dismissed.

Tracking

We fully embrace all forms of tracking. You are
hereby advised to learn about tracking and seek
out the best statistical tracking tools available.
Any and all email complaints about suspsected
tracking will be summarily dismissed.

No IPSEC Restrictions

We do not care about your IP address whatsoever.
Nor do we attempt to limit seating based on the
IP address of the connection. You may not sit
at the same table with the same screen name more
than once. You may seat yourself more than once
at the same table as long as you use a different
name for each instance. e.g. You cannot seat
Adam and Adam but you may seat Adam and Bill.

Identify Privacy

No attempt will be made to inform your opponents
that you are playing more than one chair. By this
same policy no attempt will be made to inform you
that one or more opponents might be the same entity.
You are hereby advised to learn about teaming methods
as well as to learn how to track them.

Teaming

No effort whatsoever will be made to prevent anybody
from engaging in action at the table even if they are
playing more than one hand. Our business model is tied
to the rake therefore we have nothing to lose by letting
you play more than 1 hand; it's your choice. If you play
and generate rake then you are our friend and we intend
to help you play in any way you see fit. The reason
this policy exists is because there is no way to prove
that any of your opponents did not share their cards
(i.e. via phone, chat, voip, etc.) and as such you are
allowed to avail yourself of any and all cardsharing
techniques suitable to you. Our lives as internet
poker providers are much simpler by not attempting
to police this activity. Any and all email complaints
about suspsected teaming will be summarily dismissed.

Random Shuffling

We implement player determined shuffling. Our game servers
have no control over the outcome of the shuffle other than
to apply a deterministic shuffling algorithm combined with
random information collected from each client. This feature
makes it possible for a gaming authority to randomly sample
the shuffler for integrity.

Chatting Manners

Your chatting privileges can be revoked for the following:
- not speaking english
- threatening physical violence
- using language more severe than the table rating
(G,PG,PG13,R)

Denial of Service

You are hereby notified that we will take severe action
against you if we believe that you are attempting to
engage in any type of DOS attack upon our game servers.
No other disclosure is offered to you insofar as what
we're willing to do to you and your computer should you
attempt to threaten our service. You have been warned.
Be nice to us and we will be nice to you.

***************
originally posted at:
forum.winholdem.net/wbb/viewtopic.php?t=8483

[oyvindgee]

No

[augie_]

wow. whatever site this is, stay the hell away.

[janeytopset]

[ QUOTE ]
No

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.

[RayBornert]

augie,

ok fair enough.
you'd not deposit and play at this site.

but are the terms and condtions honest?
if you say no then please explain the
parts that you think are dishonest.

ray

[Canard]

[ QUOTE ]
augie,

ok fair enough.
you'd not deposit and play at this site.

but are the terms and condtions honest?
if you say no then please explain the
parts that you think are dishonest.

ray

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If they reflect what the hypothetical site was planning to implement then, yes, they are honest. If they don't then, no.

Is there another meaning of the word 'honest' that I'm not seeing here?

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
No

[/ QUOTE ]

oy,

so you'd not deposit because the t&c is dishonest or
because you'd be scared to play under those conditions?

ray

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
augie,

ok fair enough.
you'd not deposit and play at this site.

but are the terms and condtions honest?
if you say no then please explain the
parts that you think are dishonest.

ray

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand the question. If they reflect what the hypothetical site was planning to implement then, yes, they are honest. If they don't then, no.

Is there another meaning of the word 'honest' that I'm not seeing here?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm suggesting that all online holdem is already
very much like this even though sites do not tell
you that it is.

any of your opponents can already freely do all
of the things mentioned in the t&c so why not
just say so?

ray.

[neverforgetlol]

no one is interested in playing with bots, or colluders, or paying for hand histories. the first two ruin the game, and other sites don't charge for hh's so why should we have to pay for them? for example, i have 7875 hands at NL50 with a profit of about $840. so i'd lose about $79 off that profit to have my hand histories.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
no one is interested in playing with bots, or colluders, or paying for hand histories. the first two ruin the game, and other sites don't charge for hh's so why should we have to pay for them? for example, i have 7875 hands at NL50 with a profit of about $840. so i'd lose about $79 off that profit to have my hand histories.

[/ QUOTE ]

prove to me that the site didnt give you access
to the muck thus giving you some edge that has
contributed to your winnings.

clarifiction:
as a participant in the hand you dont pay for
your current hh. it's free. the 1c charge is
if you wanted to collect the hh's where you
were not a participant.

ray.