challenge: try to describe a society more evil...

[andyfox]

The Aztecs were originally a nomadic group involved in a process of invasion, conquest and assimilation. During the course of this tough process--they were one of many wandering, hungry hunter tribes, and, in the beginning, they were more persecuted than persecuting, probably driven away from one city-state after another--they went through the transformation from the worship of feminine deities to the worship of aggresive masculine ones. It was under the aegis of the newly-supreme war god, Huitzilopochtli, that the Aztecs made their way into the valley and the shores of Lake Texcoco. But they had already been hardened by that process of invasion, conquest and assimilation before they made their way to that environment. And that environment probably wasn't all that benificent: in 1325 when they settled, it was a swampy bit of land in the lake that the neighboring tribes had considerd unfit for settlement.

[SNOWBALL]

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The Aztecs were originally a nomadic group involved in a process of invasion, conquest and assimilation. During the course of this tough process--they were one of many wandering, hungry hunter tribes, and, in the beginning, they were more persecuted than persecuting, probably driven away from one city-state after another--they went through the transformation from the worship of feminine deities to the worship of aggresive masculine ones. It was under the aegis of the newly-supreme war god, Huitzilopochtli, that the Aztecs made their way into the valley and the shores of Lake Texcoco. But they had already been hardened by that process of invasion, conquest and assimilation before they made their way to that environment. And that environment probably wasn't all that benificent: in 1325 when they settled, it was a swampy bit of land in the lake that the neighboring tribes had considerd unfit for settlement.



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Andy,

how in the hell do you know so much stuff?

[kingofmirrors]

This makes no sense, Jesus isn't necessary for the Jewish laws to be updated...

[Duke]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these new 'people' who pop up out of nowhere to defend the bible are just gimmick accounts successfully leveling a bunch of us. Well done!

[David Sklansky]

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than the one advocated in the old testament. You're supposed to kill your children and your wife, etc. if they suggest worshiping another god. You're supposed to investigate whether other towns are worshipping other gods. If they are, you have to kill everyone in the town. If a woman who is not engaged to be married is raped, then she has to marry the man who rapes her .

When you go to war, and win, you are supposed to kill all the male prisoners and use the women for sex

The more I learn about the Bible, the more shocked I am that people take any of this as the word of a loving creator. It seems more like the notes of a madman.

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For the umpteenth time, what difference does any of this make? If this God exists, then he must be worshipped. Maybe he is not loving. So what. Maybe he is loving and people just don't get it.

There is only one reason not to worship this God. The fact that he doesn't exist. Which is true for no reasons at all related to his wrath, but only related to reasons why rushes, and tooth fairies don't exist. Period.

[vhawk01]

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than the one advocated in the old testament. You're supposed to kill your children and your wife, etc. if they suggest worshiping another god. You're supposed to investigate whether other towns are worshipping other gods. If they are, you have to kill everyone in the town. If a woman who is not engaged to be married is raped, then she has to marry the man who rapes her .

When you go to war, and win, you are supposed to kill all the male prisoners and use the women for sex

The more I learn about the Bible, the more shocked I am that people take any of this as the word of a loving creator. It seems more like the notes of a madman.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the umpteenth time, what difference does any of this make? If this God exists, then he must be worshipped. Maybe he is not loving. So what. Maybe he is loving and people just don't get it.

There is only one reason not to worship this God. The fact that he doesn't exist. Which is true for no reasons at all related to his wrath, but only related to reasons why rushes, and tooth fairies don't exist. Period.

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Right, but no one on the other side will accept this. So, rather than just call it quits (boring!) we fight it out on their terms, and say that even if he did exist, he still wouldn't be X, Y or Z. I think most of us would agree that, if he did exist, it wouldn't really MATTER if he was X, Y or Z because he is omnipotent, but its at least something to argue about.

[PairTheBoard]

I believe the question is this: Assuming that God is Love, how can the Bible be considered the Word of God when he is so clearly represented in the Old Testament as being anything but a God of Love? Here is my answer which has now been cross-posted in 3 threads where the issue has been raised.

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Try looking at the Old Testament like this. A record of a people coming to terms with a God which they were only beginning to understand. They were trying to turn away from Hate and toward Love but their understanding of God was often tainted by the Hate that was still in them. They often projected attributes of their Hate onto that which they called God and justified acts of Hate accordingly. In their primitive attempts at righteousness they often created brutal laws. With little understanding of the natural world they routinely gave supernatural explanations for things. They made up stories to illustrate principles. They used symbolic, metaphoric, and allegorical language.

Despite all this they progressed spiritually. Look at the Old Testament as a record of spiritual experience and progress. They had spiritual insights along the way. Consider the insights in context of the times and use your own judgement as to how advanced they were. If you find wisdom in the midst of primitive noise, take the wisdom and respect the experience of the lives led. They are our ancestors and our relations in the human struggle. Have some empathy for the difficulties they lived with.

Can you see Love emerging out of all that historical tumult? Can you see Love emerging out of that people who were so clearly infected with atributes of Hate? Can you see Love Fullfilled in the New Testament? If so, you have found the Bible to be the Word of God because God's Word is his essence and the essence of God is Love.
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If you want my view on how the message of Jesus in the New Testament can be considered one of a God of Love, considering the God of revenge portrayed by Orthodox Christianity with it's afterlife of Hell for some people, you can find it in David's thread on "What Religion Should Be".

PairTheBoard

[PLOlover]

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This makes no sense, Jesus isn't necessary for the Jewish laws to be updated...

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it says right in the bible not to take away from the law and not to add to the law

[kingofmirrors]

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This makes no sense, Jesus isn't necessary for the Jewish laws to be updated...

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it says right in the bible not to take away from the law and not to add to the law

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I'm not so familiar with the specifics of the bible, but even fundamentalist Judaism is not what it was 2000 years ago and that has very little to do with Jesus. Laws may not have been added or taken away, but they certainly have been reinterpreted by great rabbis to fit the context of the times.

[revots33]

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Plus, that's not even IN the bible...source?

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Did the Church decide to expunge Exodus 12:12 from the official bible? news to me.