2/4 4bet pot, question on villain's play

sholler · #1 11-12-2007, 10:48 PM

Ok, I'm posting results in this hand because one of my questions revolves around villains hand.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($413)
CO ($126)
Button ($691.10)
SB ($396)
BB ($466.90)
UTG ($400)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $14, CO calls $14, Button raises to $55, 2 folds, Hero raises to $185, CO folds, Button calls $130.

Flop: ($387) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $228 (All-In), Button calls $228.

Turn: ($843) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($843) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $843

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kc As (three of a kind, aces).
Button has Qh Qd (full house, queens full of aces).
Outcome: Button wins $843. 

No stats for villain, from limited play seemed decent/thinking, I was running at 22/19 at the table over like 50 hands.

Obviously I was a little bleh but it happens and I was like I can't blame villain for calling (and obv I'm happy he did). But after thinking about it for a while, I'm not sure I can make the call in his pos. If we switch positions around, I def call or shove with QQ. I would put me(him?) on JJ+/AK, don't see too many people 4betting with TT. When I call his 4bet he has to put me on something similar, maybe not even JJ in the range. When he leads the flop with a shove, I think I can discount JJ because he probably has me on a range that beats him there and just gives up on the pot (I would c/f JJ here I think a huge percent of the time). Anyways, I think I'd probably be crushed or chopping at this point, but I'm still not sure if I fold. Thoughts?

Also, I think that my flop lead looks so strong that checking and letting him bet at it is the right play. I think a check looks so strong here too that he may check behind and fold to a turn bet though so I'm really not sure what's the right play.

Also, wtf is up with the ftr converter I had to edit the [censored] out of this..

edit: just to make the post longer, I hit a 3 outer on the river for a 1k pot on another table like 10 hands before this, so justice

sholler · #2 11-13-2007, 02:53 AM

after thinking about this for a while I think QQ is a definite fold there. anyone disagree? and what about my flop bet

berserk · #3 11-13-2007, 03:05 AM

If you include any form of 4bet bluffing preflop then his call becomes more justified.

rand · #4 11-13-2007, 03:57 AM

yeah if you are shoving with hands that you are 4bet bluffing with then his call is reasonable

regardless its pretty reasonable...so much of the money got in pre you can put that much in and then fold a flop...

Pete H · #5 11-13-2007, 04:09 AM

BBV