50NL: Good player donks all-in on turn, 3b pot

[Chomp]

Villain: 23/16/2.5, 1000 hands.
Seems solid, maybe one of you.
Hero: 20/17
Villain will have me a bit tighter if he's using PT.

We have been going hammer and tongs at each other on 2 or 3 tables all morning. Lots of 3betting, dick-waving etc. He ~stacked me earlier when I thought this could have been 2p 30% of the time and couldn't narrow his range to just KJ...in hindsight, my call isn't great I don't think...

..............................

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$49.50</font>)
UTG 1 (<font color="#0000cc">$63.55</font>)
CO (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$49.25</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$43.75</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$52.40</font>)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 6 players) Hero is BTN 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG 1 raises to $2</font>, <font color="#777777">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.75, 2 players)
UTG 1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4.5</font>, UTG 1 calls $4.5

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($13.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG 1 bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($27.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG 1 bets $21</font>, Hero calls $21

Final Pot: $66.75
UTG 1 shows: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero shows: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG 1 wins $66.75 ( won $32.25 )
Hero lost -$34.50

..............................

So the hand in question...for what it's worth, I don't think this is a call, but I am very interested in whether I am gettting owned here by great play...say overs + FD or something. I suck at shoving looking for FE and am trying to learn good spots to do it in. What would your range for doing this be?

...............................

$0.25/$0.5 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$67.93</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$64.35</font>)
BTN (<font color="#0000cc">$33.65</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$45.05</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$50.00</font>)

Pre-flop: ($0.75, 5 players) Hero is CO T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#777777">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $4

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($12.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8</font>, UTG calls $8

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($28.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $53.93</font>, Hero....

..............................

Thanks.

[ama0330]

Looks like an overpair that is getting worried about the worsening board texture and is trying to commit a hand just like TT. I would fold here, the turn has not improved his hand and we cant assume he is suicidal so theres no reason to think we are ahead.

[Profish2285]

Yea I fold too. Last time he donked we were [censored] so Im just gonna give him credit and fold. Like ama said, this looks like an overpair alot. It could be AKhh/AQhh as well though but youre not getting odds against his range I dont think. I really think he could have JJ-AA pretty easily here.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea I fold too. Last time he donked we were [censored] so Im just gonna give him credit and fold. Like ama said, this looks like an overpair alot. It could be AKhh/AQhh as well though but youre not getting odds against his range I dont think. I really think he could have JJ-AA pretty easily here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thing is that even if he has AQhh he has like 15 outs on you, and AQhh is at the bottom of his range

[matrix]

I do this sometimes with black AK here - pretty much the only hands that call are sets AJhh+ and QQ+

Even tho if he is any good his bluffing range has got to be ~30% here we still can't call #2 cos most of the time we are crushed drawing to 2 outs I'd guess 70% he has JJ+ 20% a worse pair + draw or AJhh+ and 10% stone cold bluff.

hand 1 is standard - there is no way you can pin villain solely on KJ. I think AQ is much more likely given he opened UTG.

[AZplaya]

hand 1 looks like a standard cooler, I probably play it the same, maybe shove the turn some % of the time.

I think this is a fold on the turn. I think you narrowed his range pre flop and there are very few hands in that range he would play like this. FWIW I don't think 3 betting pre is mandatory in this spot. By just calling you keep the pot smaller and his range wider.

[Check_The_Nuts]

how the [censored] is hand one standard? Do you guys really float AT9hh boards with KJo OOP with the betting lead preflop UTG?

The fact he peeled that flop so light would make me want to call turn bets more liberally from him. It just sucks its a 3bet pot. I think this guy is definitely capable of peeling AK on that flop, esp. after seeing the first hand.

Think I like folding more than calling tho.