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  #31  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:16 AM
gordo16 gordo16 is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]
I think a c/r on the turn after calling his flop raise is the best way to rep the nuts and probably how I would have played this hand. Snd if he's in a stubborn mood or tilting and still calls you down you have outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

gonna be hard for me to c/r turn when im in position....

for everyone talking about how bad brian tilts, etc I think you guys underestimate him quite a bit. while he does tilt a bit, he far from "has issues" with it. he's an extremely disciplined player who very rarely lets emotions affect his play aside from perhaps loosening up his range a bit when running bad...

RoundTower; I gotta say I agree with your post on this one. I didn't really understand where Pete was coming from with his adivce either... and the play was IMO justified because both Brian and I know that I play the nut flush (and usually only the nut flush) this way... I just overplayed a semi-bluff/bet for value in this spot.



RESULTS:

I don't feel like finding the HH but I called the turn (a pretty obvious call IMO) and Brian wound up showing TTxx with little clubs, the river blanked, and he wound up taking down a large pot with his aggresive play. Later, he obviously just said that he was tilting and that I was reading too far into the hand when I told him that my play was bothering me, so I just wanted to post this to make sure that I had put him on the correct range on the turn.

Thanks for the responses.
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  #32  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:55 AM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with almost everything pete wrote, that he can expect you to have AA more often than the nut flush based on your flop action. I don't think you should always bet/3bet the flop with AA here, and I certainly don't like it if you don't tend to play the nut flush equally fast. Also, there are way more combos of Kcxc than of AAxx, and an aggressive player is opening most of them on the button. Also, AA is more likely to take a free card on the turn.

I think it's a clear call. You are priced in or very close if he always has a flush, so if he ever has less it becomes a must call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Upon further review, Gordo was getting a better price than I thought, so I definitely agree that you're priced in to call, since aba only has to have junk or a lower set 5% of the time or so to make it profitable.

The card combinations are very close, and by my rough math, post-flop play being equal, gordo is more likely to have AAxx if he raises his Kcxcxx hands any less than ~85% of the time.

As for the subjective stuff, I don't know, it still just feels to me like aba was waiting for a safe turn to shove his smaller flush, expecting to be ahead. And yes, given the action, I expect aba to think gordo is more likely to be semi-bluffing top set than to be fast-playing the nuts, even though that shouldn't be the case if gordo is playing game-theoretically perfect. But I've never played aba so what do I know.

edit: absolutely not trying to brag, and I could still be way off base about the hand, but I'd just like to note that I didn't see gordo's results before posting this.
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  #33  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:41 AM
sqwisssssss sqwisssssss is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a c/r on the turn after calling his flop raise is the best way to rep the nuts and probably how I would have played this hand. Snd if he's in a stubborn mood or tilting and still calls you down you have outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

gonna be hard for me to c/r turn when im in position....

for everyone talking about how bad brian tilts, etc I think you guys underestimate him quite a bit. while he does tilt a bit, he far from "has issues" with it. he's an extremely disciplined player who very rarely lets emotions affect his play aside from perhaps loosening up his range a bit when running bad...

RoundTower; I gotta say I agree with your post on this one. I didn't really understand where Pete was coming from with his adivce either... and the play was IMO justified because both Brian and I know that I play the nut flush (and usually only the nut flush) this way... I just overplayed a semi-bluff/bet for value in this spot.



RESULTS:

I don't feel like finding the HH but I called the turn (a pretty obvious call IMO) and Brian wound up showing TTxx with little clubs, the river blanked, and he wound up taking down a large pot with his aggresive play. Later, he obviously just said that he was tilting and that I was reading too far into the hand when I told him that my play was bothering me, so I just wanted to post this to make sure that I had put him on the correct range on the turn.

Thanks for the responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

well gordo, with his holdings, you played the hand better.....he didnt.

if you knew what he was holding, would you play it any different?

brian better not tilt often because he will be an atm playing like that for 200bb's. i'm not exactly sure but i think he's close to a 40 buyin down swing now mixed with his 50/100 play too. a good chunk of that is from tilt. i dont see where the discipline is.

call it opening up your range but its still a form of tilt. its what leads to aggro tilt. not good.
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  #34  
Old 11-25-2007, 12:27 PM
Paulie Walnuts Paulie Walnuts is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

Bottom line is you could easily have the king high flush the way the hand played out. He isn't check raising the turn here with a lower than nut flush here imo unless he has a set with a lower flush. Therefore two of your pair outs are gone. Id still make a crying call given the fact that he may just have an underset. Really tough hand here bud.

edit: just read the post above and realize the results were out. Made me feel warm and fuzzy inside that my read was right. Although i've been on a huge downswing i might just have to jump on and play cash PLO today. wuz just gonna play the tourneys. LOL

edit again: read the original post again and noticed TT didn't make him a set so read was off, LOL maybe I should stick to the tourneys LOL
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  #35  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:20 PM
sc000t sc000t is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

FWIW I think this hand much closer to a fold than people think. No I dont think its a fold, nor could I even do it in this position but I highly doubt Brian shows up here very often with anything less than a flush. And having all those blockers to your Full House, with only one card to come really edges this closer to a fold.

All in all, gh. Keep the deep stack HU posts coming please.
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  #36  
Old 11-26-2007, 11:37 PM
crashwhips crashwhips is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]

and i'm still going with my twighlight zone read here and maybe putting brian on 2 red kings here too. i know, stupid read but i seen brian get really stupid when he tilts. the only difference between now and "then".......he doesnt suckout from the twighlight zone like he used to.

[/ QUOTE ]

He will never, never have two red kings here unless he has a flush to go along with them.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:12 AM
grizy grizy is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

I like the way the hand was played although I'd give serious thought to checking the turn since we're sitting on our own outs if brian decides to committ.

There is no way you can fold the turn here.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:47 PM
sqwisssssss sqwisssssss is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

and i'm still going with my twighlight zone read here and maybe putting brian on 2 red kings here too. i know, stupid read but i seen brian get really stupid when he tilts. the only difference between now and "then".......he doesnt suckout from the twighlight zone like he used to.

[/ QUOTE ]

He will never, never have two red kings here unless he has a flush to go along with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

your wrong.

i once saw sbrugby play a hand at 200/400 plo against antonius. everyone folds to patrik in the sb. patrik raises brian in the bb. brian reraises, patrik calls. the flop comes all diamonds with ace of diamonds on the flop. patrik checks, brian bets, patrik raises, brian re raises, patrik calls. turn is a king. patrik bets, brian goes all in, patrik calls. brian has 2 black kings, patrik has 3rd nut flush.

of course the river pairs the board and brian takes down a 170k pot.
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:53 PM
CrushinFelt CrushinFelt is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

Jesus I've misread like half of the hands I've commented on.

Nothing you can do when your opponent plays bad ;p
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  #40  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:59 PM
pete fabrizio pete fabrizio is offline
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Default Re: HU 25/50 really weird spot deep

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

and i'm still going with my twighlight zone read here and maybe putting brian on 2 red kings here too. i know, stupid read but i seen brian get really stupid when he tilts. the only difference between now and "then".......he doesnt suckout from the twighlight zone like he used to.

[/ QUOTE ]

He will never, never have two red kings here unless he has a flush to go along with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

your wrong.

i once saw sbrugby play a hand at 200/400 plo against antonius. everyone folds to patrik in the sb. patrik raises brian in the bb. brian reraises, patrik calls. the flop comes all diamonds with ace of diamonds on the flop. patrik checks, brian bets, patrik raises, brian re raises, patrik calls. turn is a king. patrik bets, brian goes all in, patrik calls. brian has 2 black kings, patrik has 3rd nut flush.

of course the river pairs the board and brian takes down a 170k pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds like a very very different situation.
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