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#11
10-10-2007, 04:03 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
[ QUOTE ]
30/70 really? i thought it was less because they can boat and gg whiteboy [/ QUOTE ] Board: Qd Jh 5h Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 30.303% 30.30% 00.00% 300 0.00 { KhQh } Hand 1: 69.697% 69.70% 00.00% 690 0.00 { QcQs } you have flush, and the backdoor straight draw too but against another set, youre just over a 2-1 dog Board: Qd Jh 5h Dead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 31.919% 31.92% 00.00% 948 0.00 { KhQh } Hand 1: 68.081% 68.08% 00.00% 2022 0.00 { 55 } 
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#12
10-10-2007, 04:05 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
All this is if you know your only up against a set.
UTG can have AA/KK/AQ alot here, and playing it fast while you still have the edge can help you get the money in ahead, or fold out a hand that is currently ahead of you. For me I like to play these aggressively since I hate having to fold out a TP hand by the river.
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#13
10-10-2007, 04:20 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
Raise flop to $5 or so. Call if he shoves. Even if you are behind you have a big flush draw, an overcard, and backdoor straight. You have plenty of outs, if behind.
On turn - I think calling is very bad. I think you are in a raise/fold spot on turn. This is why raising the flop is best; you avoid these situations. Calling is throwing away money, in my opinion. If you hit flush on river, he'll check and you won't get paid anyways.
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#14
10-10-2007, 04:44 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop to $5 or so. Call if he shoves. Even if you are behind you have a big flush draw, an overcard, and backdoor straight. You have plenty of outs, if behind. On turn - I think calling is very bad. I think you are in a raise/fold spot on turn. This is why raising the flop is best; you avoid these situations. Calling is throwing away money, in my opinion. If you hit flush on river, he'll check and you won't get paid anyways. [/ QUOTE ] Ok..everyone likes to be aggressive so lets turn this situation around. If you have AA (almost exactly a coinflip) against Hero in this hand and you know that your opponent has K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. What is YOUR best flop result?...TO GET ALL THE MONIES IN THE MIDDLE. Now if its the best result for AA can it be the best result for K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] too?...NO To say villain can get away (sometimes) when the flush hits neglects the fact that WE get away with about 75% of our stack when we whiff...which, with position will be a much much better % than what villain can get away with here when we hit. Its our turn to take advantage of RIO...use it. The only downside of this approach is a triple barrel bluff...which is rare and not part of the read given.
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#15
10-10-2007, 04:46 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
[ QUOTE ]
Raise flop to $5 or so. Call if he shoves. Even if you are behind you have a big flush draw, an overcard, and backdoor straight. You have plenty of outs, if behind. On turn - I think calling is very bad. I think you are in a raise/fold spot on turn. This is why raising the flop is best; you avoid these situations. Calling is throwing away money, in my opinion. If you hit flush on river, he'll check and you won't get paid anyways. [/ QUOTE ] yeah i mean by callign the flop i made the decision to play the hadn slow instead of fast...i was just thinking he had a set or something and was paranoid because ive been taking some beats lately and wanted to see if it was affected my game. thanks for the help guys
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#16
10-10-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
I play this hand fast because I have top pair and the K high flush draw. That is a very big hand. I'm not saying play a naked fd this way. Top pair with fd is huge, get the money in. Your opp is never ahead by much, when he is ahead.
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#17
10-10-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
I don't think you understood anything I wrote. Having "a very big hand" does not mean playing fast is the best line.
If someone who understands it comes along they may challenge me by saying that the amount we save by playing slow and whiffing is < what villain can save when we hit + cost of giving one relatively cheap card to villain + the value of folding a small % of AQ's...I don't think that's right but at least its logical.
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#19
10-10-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
If you just want to call his flop raise - thats fine. I don't necessarily have problems with that. I think calling a pot sized bet on the turn is very bad in this spot. That's what I think is the biggest mistake in the hand. I think you have to raise or fold. I don't like the call on the turn.
Also, don't you think OP is ahead on the flop a high % of the time? Not to mention OP probably has the best draw.
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#20
10-10-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: flopped tp+fd facing turn check minraise
Most wrong = folding flop.
After that there are lines of varying EV positivity and I would say that any line other than the most EV+ is wrong. If you are saying playing the flop fast and calling are equal EV+ then your analysis is desperately needed for this thread.
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