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  #1  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:36 PM
Berge20 Berge20 is offline
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Default NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

Original raiser is unknown
First caller is set miner
3-bettor is regular TAG that has a decent 3-betting range
Shorty is unknown

I felt that I could almost justify any of the three moves here. If shorty hadn't pushed, I felt like a 4-bet was the right move. Does his play change that any? Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($51.20)
UTG+1 ($24.80)
MP1 ($57.40)
MP2 ($76.10)
MP3 ($62.10)
CO ($52.25)
Button ($44.70)
SB ($8.25)
Hero ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls $1.50, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $8.25</font>, <font color="#666666"> Hero ???
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:45 PM
Albert Moulton Albert Moulton is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front *DELETED*

Post deleted by Albert Moulton
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:55 PM
Berge20 Berge20 is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

UTG or MP3 would have the option to re-raise
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2007, 05:00 PM
Albert Moulton Albert Moulton is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

[ QUOTE ]
UTG or MP3 would have the option to re-raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. I deleted my post since I'd misread the action. Sorry. A lot times on my lunch break I read and respond too fast.

I need to think about it some more.
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  #5  
Old 11-30-2007, 05:32 PM
Lansingg Lansingg is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

I think I would atleast call
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:10 PM
oakrdrzfan oakrdrzfan is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

What is a decent 3 bettor? One that 3 bets only QQ+,AK? You are behind that range, but even or so slightly ahead of JJ+,AK

If his range is as above, then I dump the hand. Original raiser could push this AI or even 3 bettor could before it gets back around to you.

If you call the amount right now, what is your action if it gets AI when it comes back around? You fold or stick it in? I dont like committing 20% of stack and then folding. I think there is a good chance this pot is going to result in all the money going in.
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:18 PM
Berge20 Berge20 is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

I should have been more clear on that. His range is on the wider side of 3-betting at the level in this spot. He identifies opportunities to punish limping and squeeze loose raisers+callers.

Is it 98 suited loose? Eh, not positive. Definately JJ/AQ+ loose.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:08 PM
ultimatejackal ultimatejackal is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

I fold here. QQ runs into AA or KK about 9% of the time. If it is 3 bet to me with QQ, I can't fold them fast enough. Been stacked to many times in this situation.

If I decided I was going to play them, I probably 4 bet raise to $13.50 and fold to a shove. CO cannot call or shove with less than KK.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2007, 06:44 PM
sharkscopeaholic sharkscopeaholic is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would atleast call

[/ QUOTE ]

A call would be bad oop with QQ though right? I never call here, raise or fold.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:31 PM
Albert Moulton Albert Moulton is offline
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Default Re: NL50: QQ from BB after a 3bet in front

I think fold is best.

If you push and everybody folds, then you are probably up against TT-AA/AQ+ in the SB for ~$16 after the rake, giving you ~55.038% equtiy meaning that you win about eight bucks from this move, on average when everybody else folds.

But when you get called you either UTG+1 or CO when they have QQ-AA,AK you now only have 32.680% equity for the main pot, and 40.207% for the rest of your stack in the side pot.

I haven't tried to do all the math for all the possible combinations, but I can't believe that pushing is much better than neutral EV if it isn't actually -EV.

Calling for set value is being too optimistic since you'd have to fold if UTG+1 pushed, and there is no guarantee that you'd get the rest of your stack in, get called and win even if you flop your set from the BB.

So, I'd fold and let UTG+1 and CO duke it out.
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