most passive QQ i've played in recent memory...alternatives? - Page 3

NinaWilliams · #21 11-25-2007, 03:52 AM

A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

PokerBob · #22 11-25-2007, 03:53 AM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

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but this guys plays good.

dcb777 · #23 11-25-2007, 03:54 AM

He definetely 4 bets here with JJ and Possibly 99 as well

NinaWilliams · #24 11-25-2007, 04:09 AM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

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but this guys plays good.

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What's that suppose to mean?

Unless my ranges are way off and you're 3 betting AJo and stuff, TT has between 27% and 42% EQ and AKo has between 46% and 49%. I dont see how capping can be correct with that kind of equity.

PokerBob · #25 11-25-2007, 04:14 AM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

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but this guys plays good.

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What's that suppose to mean?

Unless my ranges are way off and you're 3 betting AJo and stuff, TT has between 27% and 42% EQ and AKo has between 46% and 49%. I dont see how capping can be correct with that kind of equity.

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sometimes a good player will 4bet a wider range so that 3betting hands will have to fold unfriendly flops.

DcifrThs · #26 11-25-2007, 04:41 AM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

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but this guys plays good.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that suppose to mean?

Unless my ranges are way off and you're 3 betting AJo and stuff, TT has between 27% and 42% EQ and AKo has between 46% and 49%. I dont see how capping can be correct with that kind of equity.

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nina, i don't agree with the way you're thinking about this.

equity considerations are important obv, but in this spot, there are other crucial considerations, of which pokerbob touched on.

Barron

*TT* · #27 11-25-2007, 04:51 AM

You beat JJ and AK - 22 combinations.

you lose to AA, KK, QQ & TT - 21 combinations.

he isnt folding any hand that beats you to a raise. And your not folding - the action is obviously a call.

NinaWilliams · #28 11-25-2007, 06:10 AM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

[/ QUOTE ]

but this guys plays good.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that suppose to mean?

Unless my ranges are way off and you're 3 betting AJo and stuff, TT has between 27% and 42% EQ and AKo has between 46% and 49%. I dont see how capping can be correct with that kind of equity.

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nina, i don't agree with the way you're thinking about this.

equity considerations are important obv, but in this spot, there are other crucial considerations, of which pokerbob touched on.

Barron

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With AK there really is no benefit to making them fold unfriendly flops because most of those flops contain an A or a K. Maybe they fold a chop but I dont think that outweighs the times we brick and put in 2sb on the flop vs an overpair.

With TT, theres some benefit to folding out JJ or something on a bad flop but again so many things have to fall in place for that to happen that I cant see it overcoming our equity deficit.

DcifrThs · #29 11-25-2007, 02:44 PM

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A range of AK and TT+ is too loose. AK and TT arent doing so hot vs your 3 bet range and I expect him to know this.

[/ QUOTE ]

but this guys plays good.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's that suppose to mean?

Unless my ranges are way off and you're 3 betting AJo and stuff, TT has between 27% and 42% EQ and AKo has between 46% and 49%. I dont see how capping can be correct with that kind of equity.

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nina, i don't agree with the way you're thinking about this.

equity considerations are important obv, but in this spot, there are other crucial considerations, of which pokerbob touched on.

Barron

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With AK there really is no benefit to making them fold unfriendly flops because most of those flops contain an A or a K. Maybe they fold a chop but I dont think that outweighs the times we brick and put in 2sb on the flop vs an overpair.

With TT, theres some benefit to folding out JJ or something on a bad flop but again so many things have to fall in place for that to happen that I cant see it overcoming our equity deficit.

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first off, on average the amt you are putting in extra w/ TT/AK here is maybe slightly more than 1 sb (when he 5 bets). when he doesn't 5 bet, he is in a tough spot even with QQ/KK if the flop comes A high (and you have TT since AK is such a huge combinatoric contributor to your range) and even QQ/JJ if it comes K or A high.

further, he is restrained from raising b/c from his perspective it is either a call down or not...not a raise since it would allow me to get away from TT but make him put more money in when behind to AK.

it also allows him to play less than perfectly against your capping range. if you are only capping JJ+, that is 4 hands. adding AK and TT makes a huge difference and i think more than makes up for the fairly small equity deficit (more so w/ AK than TT, but TT i still think is a capping hand in this spot. personally i cut it off at 99 but it is possibly reasonable to consider not capping TT. i don't think that can be said for AK).

another thing w/ TT is that the equity calculation plays out the whole hand giving AK all 5 cards. it won't necessarily get to do that if the board develops favorably for you (i.e. QJ5 and you bet the flop and he calls...unlikely he'd raise AK there. if you bet the turn - last bet you should put in imo- he will not always call AK getting 5.5:1 since he can be in big trouble from his perspective).

anyways, those are just some thoughts,
Barron

DcifrThs · #30 11-25-2007, 02:46 PM

Results:

bob raises early i 3 bet QQ he 4 bets i call.

flop is T88 bet call.

turn some blank, bet call.

river some blank, bet call.

bob turns over 99 and i take it.

his body language when he turned over his hand said "ship it" and he was legitimately shocked when i flipped up QQ (i.e. showed up in his face) to which he rapped the table and gave the acknowledging "nice hand" head nod with his headphones on.

Barron