K Jack off

[Montrealcorp]

think of it ,lets say u do hit ure straight anyhow,
u bet right out and what do u do if u been raise by utg and reraise by somone behind?
cause like u said earlier your straight might be good or not and the utg raiser might think u try steal pot from him and there some one out there already with flush

(low one,thats why he wouldnt raise turn because he knew he couldnt make fold a Q or K anywya on turn for 1 BB, but would raise on river knowing is flush is probably good?)

do u call 2 cold BB AND w/o knowing if utg raiser will after that action,reraise of just call or even fold?

calling on turn,u must think about those tought as well when its multiway pot and a dangerous board like that with lot of redraws or even dead draws for u...no?

for those reasons 14.3 -1 odd on the turn is very thin very thin i think,but probably the best move is check and if u can close the action on river for 1 bet fine go ahead but be able to fold if lot of action on river,if u cant just fold on the river,might be good idea to fold turn?

[terencetsao]

is the preflop standard? i usually wouldnt call at that position!

[larm]

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is the preflop standard? i usually wouldnt call at that position!

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In 6-max i think it is

[Fantam]

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think of it ,lets say u do hit ure straight anyhow,
u bet right out and what do u do if u been raise by utg and reraise by somone behind?

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If you hit your straight on the river, I think its unlikely that you would be raised and re-raised by UTG and someone else behind.

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cause like u said earlier your straight might be good or not and the utg raiser might think u try steal pot from him

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So, if you made your straight on the river and UTG did raise your river bet, you would call.

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and there some one out there already with flush
(low one,thats why he wouldnt raise turn because he knew he couldnt make fold a Q or K anywya on turn for 1 BB, but would raise on river knowing is flush is probably good?)

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I think that most players who made the non-nuts flush on the turn would bet or raise with it. I dont think that they would wait for the river to bet, incase a 4th [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] fell to give someone with the lone K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] a better flush.

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do u call 2 cold BB AND w/o knowing if utg raiser will after that action,reraise of just call or even fold?

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For UTG and someone else to raise and 3-bet your river bet after you made your straight on the river would be very unlikely. It would also be strange, and so I think that you probably should call if that happened.

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calling on turn,u must think about those tought as well when its multiway pot and a dangerous board like that with lot of redraws or even dead draws for u...no?

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The possibility of having to make a difficult decision later in the hand is not a good reason to avoid making the correct decision earlier. Considering your play on later streets on dangerous boards is fine, but deal with later tough decisions when and if they arise.

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for those reasons 14.3 -1 odd on the turn is very thin very thin i think

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As explained in earlier posts, you are getting good odds on the turn to call.

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,but probably the best move is check and if u can close the action on river for 1 bet fine go ahead

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Dont check the river if you make the straight that you were hoping for. Bet your hand for value !

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but be able to fold if lot of action on river,

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A lot of action on the river is unlikely if you made a straight. But even if there was a lot of action, folding what could very easily be the best hand in an enormous pot would be a big mistake.

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if u cant just fold on the river,might be good idea to fold turn?

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You are trying to justify making a poor decision to fold the turn, because if you call, you are afraid that you might have to make a tough decision on the river.

Thats just weak play and you can not think that way to play poker profitably.

I am sorry if my post was long, but I have tried to answer the points which you raised as clearly as I could.

[SomthingOrOther]

Fold pf, your op, you have a marginal hand that dosent really fair well aginst a 3-bet range.

[NIX]

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Fold pf, your op, you have a marginal hand that dosent really fair well aginst a 3-bet range.

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Getting 14:1 and closing the action?

[milesdyson]

i disagree w/ pretty much everything i've seen somthingorother post.

also this hand is painfullllllllllllllly standard

[Montrealcorp]

fantam,i dunno on what u put the 3 players facing our poster upthere but 1 thing is for sure,if u hit the straight im pretty sure u dont have the nuts!
u seem to be saying the exact opposite?fine then your right if u think that if u hit the straight u win!
like i said earlier: only 3 T are good(maybe) on the river BUT:
u dont have 15-1 odds cause u might already be beat!!that the point,
moreover,waiting with the little flush to raise on river with multiple opponents might not be that bad for the reason i especially explain earlier:if u raise u wont make fold the better nuts draws (K or Q)and u specifically prevent other players(like our hero) to try hit is straight(since he wouldnt call 2BB cold) on river wich u want him to call to claim more bets from him on river(if he plays like u said:he call turn bet river and called the raise,thats not 15-1 odds no more...):its called over call....wich means u make as much money with less risk of your own money!
but like i said previously its a call but a crying call!
u think if he hit is straight is got the nuts then your right but i really doubt he would have the nuts...
and remember even if its unlikely,it could eb a split pot if he hit is straight,i mean what in the hell u think they have for a hands at 3/6 .....certainely not Kclubs with 4 hearts...but more like Kclubs J hearts or w/e...

[Montrealcorp]

fantam btw:

The possibility of having to make a difficult decision later in the hand is not a good reason to avoid making the correct decision earlier. Considering your play on later streets on dangerous boards is fine, but deal with later tough decisions when and if they arise.

why u think all poker books show poker players to play tight weak......

[Xhad]

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is the preflop standard? i usually wouldnt call at that position!

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In 6-max i think it is

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Getting 9:1 expected I think it always is. Obv if hero somehow knew an LRR was going to happen you could fold preflop but as it stands call and be prepared to play some poker if you flop a pair.