Questions for NotReady

[Phil153]

You have previously claimed that all morality is from the bible and God.

So explain to me, using ONLY quotes from the bible, and no secular ethics, which of each of these items is morally worse:

1. a) A bomber pilot takes orders to bomb an enemy house. He knows that 5 women children will be killed by the blast radius. He goes through with the bombing.
b) A man gets together five of his neighbors, and stones his teenage daughter to death for having sex with her boyfriend, as commanded by God in the bible.

2. a) A man has consensual sex with an unmarried woman he met at a club and felt a connection to.
b) A man marries the 12 year old daughter of his friend as payment for services, and rapes her on the wedding night and for years afterwards.

3. a) A man blasphemies the name of the Lord where children can hear.
b) A judge orders a confessed pagan witch to be burnt at the stake.

Much obliged!

[hexag1]

how about this one, taken from Hitchens.

What did the people of Israel do before they got to Mount Sinai? Did they just murder and steal all the time until God told them not to? How did they even stick together as a people through all their trials and tribulations while thinking that murder was OK?

[surftheiop]

Phil what are you trying to prove here? That the Bible and secular ethics aren't neccesarily the same?
If the Bible is true then its ethics are greater than any other ethics no matter what, as they are built by an omnipetent, infinitely loving and perfectly just being. If the Bible isnt true then its ethics are no more important than the ethics of orcs in lord of the rings.
Your post is a red herring you should be debating the existence of God and whether the Bible is his words because that debate holds the anwwer to ethics debate.

If the Bible is God's word and God is who the bible says he is then your definitions of morals mean nothing compared to the bible's and if you believe the bible isn't true there is no reason to be making this post.

[Phil153]

I'm trying to show him that he can answer moral questions without reference to God given law - in fact in direct contradiction of it. According to the bible (which is God's communication with the world, according to NotReady), the stoning of adulterers, blasphemers and witches is significantly more moral than consensual premarital sex. Even the one incident with Jesus did not negate this truth. Yet NotReady (I think) rejects this notion. He has no basis for doing so unless he has decided on a set of ethics independent from God-given law, or at the very least interpreted scripture very liberally based on his personal whims.

The fact that he can make such choices and stick to them points to a source of ethical decision making independent of God. Maybe, just maybe, he's not such a bad guy after all and would continue to be a nice guy without God to nanny him and school him in ethics. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[surftheiop]

Although i think this post is absurd as explained in my other post i guess ill play along somewhat but its really difficult to do from a Biblical standpoint because the Bible shows us that all sin is equal in God's eyes. Ill still give you some verses in relation to your situations.

First I want you to suppurt the situation from 1 B with a biblical quote.

In one from a secular ethics standpoint i assume you say A is worse because 5 are killed instead of 1?

Random Biblical quotes regarding said situations
1B)
" Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

1A) 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[h] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[i] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

2B) 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

[Arp220]

[ QUOTE ]
You have previously claimed that all morality is from the bible and God.

So explain to me, using ONLY quotes from the bible, and no secular ethics, which of each of these items is morally worse:

1. a) A bomber pilot takes orders to bomb an enemy house. He knows that 5 women children will be killed by the blast radius. He goes through with the bombing.
b) A man gets together five of his neighbors, and stones his teenage daughter to death for having sex with her boyfriend, as commanded by God in the bible.

2. a) A man has consensual sex with an unmarried woman he met at a club and felt a connection to.
b) A man marries the 12 year old daughter of his friend as payment for services, and rapes her on the wedding night and for years afterwards.

3. a) A man blasphemies the name of the Lord where children can hear.
b) A judge orders a confessed pagan witch to be burnt at the stake.

Much obliged!

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the usual answer was that you can pretty much ignore leviticus because, despite being the 'word of god' and so on, we dont have to actually follow it because Jesus did something or other? Or something?

At least, thats the usual vague sort of answer I get when I ask my more religious friends similarly veined questions.