When callers beat you to the pot at limit poker - Angle shoot?

[zerocarb]

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Scenario 1: as soon as you grab them and lift them above your stack, your opponent throws in his chips to call.

Scenario 2: you count out your chips (alongside your stack) and put them in your hand.

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No forward motion here. Just overzealous opponents. nh.

[frommagio]

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Two scenarios here:

Scenario 1: You have bet the flop and turn and were called by one player. On the river, you grab a stack of chips to bluff the river, and as soon as you grab them and lift them above your stack, your opponent throws in his chips to call.

Scenario 2: Similar flop and turn. On the river, you count out your chips (alongside your stack) and put them in your hand. While you are looking at your opponent to see if he's likely to call you, he says, "I call you. I've got a pair of aces."

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In neither of these cases have I been ruled that I have made a bet, and I've check-folded both times. But I also don't want to seem dishonest or an angle-shooter at the table. Am I ethically supposed to follow through with the bet that I would have made if my opponent didn't already call? Is it considered an angle shoot? Would you give up the bet if it's to a fish that you don't want to be upset with you?

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I think at least one of those pots would have been yours; maybe both.

[KHALI]

Funny when I posted the exact same scenario as your number 1 a couple years ago everybody(about 80%) who responded said I was a douche for stacking my chips, gathering them and then check/folding after being beat into the pot while playing 8/16 at the Wynn. Stange how opinions change based on the context of quesiton. My question was basically phrased "did I do something wrong here".

[RR]

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Funny when I posted the exact same scenario as your number 1 a couple years ago everybody(about 80%) who responded said I was a douche for stacking my chips, gathering them and then check/folding after being beat into the pot while playing 8/16 at the Wynn. Stange how opinions change based on the context of quesiton. My question was basically phrased "did I do something wrong here".

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This also points to it being hard to answer some of these things on the net. I could describe basically the same set of events two different ways to get different responses. I don't know if I responded back then, but I see no reason in limit to be picking up the chips and playing wiht them like that. I am very inclined to rule this sort of thing a bet.

[52s]

This happens to me about once every other month, generally when I reach for the stack or have barely lifted them off the stack in the same exact scenario (firing the third barrel on the river after missing) and every time I've put the chips back/let go of them and just check-folded to no fanfare.

Overzealous opponents = saved bets.

[davidlong14]

no angle here

[Chief911]

Lets take it a step further:

Overzealous caller slings chips in while you are grabbing chips. So once they get in there, calmly check...then raise.

Nick

[mhcmarty]

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** if you're consistently getting bets ready, sliding them forward but stopping just shy of the line, this is angle shooting. This tactic is commonly found in no limit games. A player makes a move like they're going all-in but stops just shy of the line hoping to get their opponent to act or even flip their cards early.

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What percentage of poker rooms with the race track on the felt actually consider the line to be meaningful when deciding on action -vs- the forward motion rule?

When I played at the Golden Nugget (this summer) the line was meaningless.

[AngusThermopyle]

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Lets take it a step further:

Overzealous caller slings chips in while you are grabbing chips. So once they get in there, calmly check...then raise.

Nick

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Competent dealer tells Opponent that you have not acted yet. He says "Sorry, I thought he was betting and I was calling."
You check.
He checks.

[Wongboy]

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Lets take it a step further:

Overzealous caller slings chips in while you are grabbing chips. So once they get in there, calmly check...then raise.

Nick

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Competent dealer tells Opponent that you have not acted yet. He says "Sorry, I thought he was betting and I was calling."
You check.
He checks.

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What is the opponents basis for thinking that you were betting? Did you say something that sounded like the word "bet"? Did you start to move forward with your chips? If you did nothing that resembled a bet, then I disagree with letting the opponent take back his chips under the premise that he was confused about your action.

Isn't this inconsistent with the idea that out of turn action is binding if the action does not change before it gets to the villian? Putting chips in the pot is pretty unequivocal action. If you are not facing a bet, then this is a bet on your part.

In most cases that I have seen, the second to act just fires chips in the middle before the first guy does anything. If you let the opponent check behind here you are opening an angle. He bets if you check, but now that he knows you plan to check raise, he would rather just check behind. He was planning to call a bet anyway, so that result is a wash for him.