These guys dont know what they are talking about, right?

[ECS]

2 players go all in pre, I flips over AA the other keeps his down. The board comes 10 3 6 J 4, the other players flips over his Jacks and throws them into the board.

The other players tell him his hand should be mucked because he launched them into the board.

Whats the deal?

[Quadstriker]

I've heard of this (dumb) house rule but it's never been a rule at any place I've ever been. The floor will be quick to tell you if that's the case.

[pfapfap]

I'm willing to believe there are houses where this kills a hand. It certainly risks one card flipping over and hitting the muck, opening the door to angle shooting. And, it's annoying. Guy with Jacks is doing a bit of teevee posturing, so he should stop it, but anybody who tries to kill his hand is a douche.

[johnnyrocket]

some places will kill this, most wont tho, its not too serious

[UbinTook]

Why players toss their cards at the board( or into the middle of the table) is beyond me, i guess it is to much TV.

Countless times i have warned players that toss their cards...
"If one( or both) of those cards comes in face down and gets fouled( in the muck or another folded hand), the hand is dead. The dealer can( should) muck the hand if it comes in partially face down. Protect yourself by holding on to your cards and tabling them properly"

[MicroBob]

Couple months ago I was in Tunica at 1/2 NL.

Player in the 1 or 2 seat does this with his QQ when he realizes he has the winner. One of the cards flies across the table and it lands in the empty 5 seat.
Guy in the 6 seat quickly picks it up and puts it back onto the table. The card was off the table for less than a second literally.

floor is called and it was ruled that the idiot had fouled his own hand by throwing it across the table like that.
$300 pot went to the guy in the 8 seat with A-high unimproved or something.

Obviously the guy in the 1-seat was not happy. Let fly a few cuss words on his way out (he was completely busted).


Some in this thread are stating that "why players do this is beyond me?"

First, they see other players AT the table doing this. They don't just see it on TV. It's right there in front of them and not really being stopped.

Second, they're newish players who are just excited to get to show a winning hand. It happens. Seriously.

Third, some dealers aren't so hot at informing players anything more than, "please remember to protect your cards sir." Some people honestly don't know what that means.

Fourth, sometimes it can be a guy from the 9-seat thinking he's doing the guy in the 3-seat a favor by throwing them out far enough so that he can see what he had. Lots of players seem to do this when they're involved in a showdown with someone completely across the table.


Played with a friend of mine a few weeks ago.
It was just his 2nd time playing live and I had to remind him to tip the dealer a buck after he won a hand...and also to keep his cards right in front of him when he was turning them over.

But 3 or 4 showdowns later and he was kind of flying them way out in front again to the point where the dealer wasn't exactly sure whose they were (multi-player showdown at 3/6 limit, can be hard for a dealer to keep track of everyone when the cards aren't directly in front).

2+2'er YouTalkFunny came to deal at our table and gave a more relevant word of caution to my friend about how important it is to keep his cards right there in front of him instead of flinging them towards the middle from the 8 seat.

If more dealers did it the way YTF did I suspect more of these problem situations could be avoided and knowledge of proper showdown procedure would spread.

[pfapfap]

[ QUOTE ]
If more dealers did it the way YTF did I suspect more of these problem situations could be avoided and knowledge of proper showdown procedure would spread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on location. I do my best to keep things clean and organized and efficient, but there are plenty of players who will do it however they like, it's their money, and I can go screw myself because they've been there thirty years and know a lot more than this young whippersnapper, so stfu and deal.

Oh, wait, I could call the floor... *five minutes later* "Uh, sir, hold onto your cards, or I'll have to wander over here again at some point and ask you to hold onto your cards again."

But yay on YTF. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

Yeah, I know it's tough with some of those guys.
And if you're too stern or piss them off then I suspect that could impact your tips too.

It's a tough balance.

But it really seems like many dealers don't feel like telling anyone the rules when they are clearly new players or tourists.

30-year veterans can take care of themselves and it's their own damn fault if they still feel like showboating.

But the total-noobs have to learn somehow.

The question is, "why do these players keep doing this?"
And to my mind the answer is, "because nobody is telling them not to" (and sometimes they are just immitating behavior of other players).


This is the type of thing that I think could be addressed more directly in rules of the room that perhaps total noobs could see.

When there's a sign in the poker-room that includes, "players are responsible for protecting their hands" I honestly would have no idea what that meant when I was a new player except to maybe make sure the guys next to me can't see my cards when I look at them.
Never would have occured to me that I need to keep them close to me at showdown.

Something more like, "attention, when making a claim for the pot please do not throw your cards face-up into the community cards or away from you. When you turn your cards over you should just turn them face-up right in front of you so that everyone knows that they are YOUR cards and so that they don't accidentally get mixed in with any thing else."


Some kind of 1 or 2 page print-out on Poker Procedures of Room X (which could practically be titled Poker Procedures for Noobs) might be worth considering.

It's not 'rules' per-se so hopefully wouldn't be an issue for angle-shooters to try to take advantage of imo (which is a big concern of some).

But it seems like we have a situation where new players are just supposed to find out some of this stuff as they go along and perhaps have dealers tell them what they are supposed to do...
but many of the dealers seem reluctant to correct such mistakes because they get are just as likely to be told to just STFU and mind their own business.


Again, I consider myself to be a relative live-poker noob and have zero dealing or floor experience.
But I see the same problems and mistakes over and over again and I can't help but wonder if there's a better way of trying to correct some of it.

[UbinTook]

"Some kind of 1 or 2 page print-out on Poker Procedures of Room X (which could practically be titled Poker Procedures for Noobs) might be worth considering."

Ive actually considered suggesting that these set of basic rules be printed on a small 2x4 card. Cards would be available at the board, but better, at the table, where the dealer can simply hand one to a new player, or someone who seems to have forgotten some of the "basics".

If you had a ten what would they be? Here are a few off the top of my head...i am out the door.

Never throw/toss your cards at showdown.

One player to a hand at all times, do not reveal or discuss your cards while during a hand.

Abuse of other guests or staff will not be tolerated

You must place chips in the pot to call, verbal calls are binding, but the pot must be correct before showdown.

Players must act only in turn

Players may only speak english during any hand in progress.

Cards speak, verbal declarations of hand value is not binding.

[swope]

last night i mistakenly claimed i had a straight while HU in a 15/30 game. player mucks as im turning over, and i realize immediately i didnt have a straight, i had misread a card on the board.

pot got shipped to the player who mucked because i messed up, even tho my jack high was the winning hand.

my response:

i apologized to the dealer and the other player for the confusion, explained why the rule was necessary to another confused player, agreed with the dealer that it was a good rule and protected players from angle shooting from total dbags, and waited patiently for the next hand to be dealt.

moral of the story:

we are all responsible for our actions. when someone tosses one of their hands off the table, out of jubilation, rote, intoxication, whatever, they blew it, game over, and the best they can do is hope the opponent splits the pot with them out of sympathy, none of which will be forthcoming if they throw a tantrum.