[150NL] 88 Flopped set 550bb's Deep

[Keyser.]

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I don't like the "he wouldn't put in 400BB" kind of argument. He's putting in a PSB and that's how it should be treated.
This also means that we are getting good odds on the call and he could have AK/44 here.
Playing differently because the amount bet is big in absolute terms and not comparing it to pot and stack sizes seems weak/scared to me.

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No one is saying to fold because the bet is big in absolute terms. It has everything to do with number of big blinds at play.

to use an exaggeration, surely you see why a $5 bet into a $5 pot on the river in a $1/2nl game is not evaluated the same way as a $1000 bet into a $1000 pot in some super deep sick $1/$2nl game, and not because its absolute size is different but because ranges get tighter as number of big blinds at risk increase.

Upon muchos consideration I'm calling here but I just wanted to point that out.

[Dr_Doctr]

I'm still with the folders in this thread v this villian's range. Since when did any nitty TAG b/3b the turn and PSB shove the river with AK on this board? I see that following soul-reads is a bad policy but this isn't a soul-read it's just a good read with a lot of information on how villian plays (according to how I interpret the comments regarding villian from OP and others).

[Lucky]

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ikes, villain has AK and shoves the river for like 300 big blinds. what's he expecting a call from ... A8? clearly there's some point at which you fold this (even getting 2.5:1). 500 big blinds? 1000 big blinds? hero has a set, but hero doesn't have the nuts.

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who said that it was a good push?

2 combos AA
2 combos KK
2 combos 44
9 combos AK

We lose to AA, KK... beat 44. If he plays AK this way 20% of the time... its a call. i rest my case.

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Actually, there are 3 hand combos of AA, KK, and 44, so given your example, he need to have AK 3 of 9 times.

But really, on the river, you're getting better than 2 to 1 to call, so even if he only has a set, it's a call here.

[shpanko]

I don't think AK is a huge part of his range, but I think we really need think about the thought process villain goes through when he holds 44. If he knows that we're always reraising AA/KK pf then HE only has to worry about one hand, 88, making it a lot more likely he's going to shove the river for value.

Honestly I don't know if I would call at the table given this guy's line tbh, but I do think he can have 44 a decent amount and so I believe a call is ok. But this is one of the sickest spots I've ever seen wow

[clowntable]

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No one is saying to fold because the bet is big in absolute terms. It has everything to do with number of big blinds at play.

to use an exaggeration, surely you see why a $5 bet into a $5 pot on the river in a $1/2nl game is not evaluated the same way as a $1000 bet into a $1000 pot in some super deep sick $1/$2nl game, and not because its absolute size is different but because ranges get tighter as number of big blinds at risk increase.

Upon muchos consideration I'm calling here but I just wanted to point that out.

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I can see why it is psychologcally more likely that villain will only do this with huge hands and therefore how we need to weight that into our decision making. But I don't think it's correct to play like that for villain (if he does he shouldn't play deep or move down imo).
I think one should bet X into a pot of X with the same hands no matter how big X is. I'm not saying this is the correct approach but it's the way I'm currently thinking.
And since I'm probably not capable of judging the mental state of a villain online I might underestimate the effects.

p.s.: Out of curiosity...how many players out of 1000 do you think would have the balls to play air like this (or turn some hand like AK into a bluff) knowing hero might fold the third nuts here?
I think I couldn't.

[VPIP100]

I havent read the responses, but I snap fold the turn.

[Dr_Doctr]

WOW at turning AK into a bluff while putting Hero on a set - lmao, that would be the sickest play of all time.

[Dr_Doctr]

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I can see why it is psychologcally more likely that villain will only do this with huge hands and therefore how we need to weight that into our decision making. But I don't think it's correct to play like that for villain (if he does he shouldn't play deep or move down imo).
I think one should bet X into a pot of X with the same hands no matter how big X is. I'm not saying this is the correct approach but it's the way I'm currently thinking.


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The trouble with this is that with bigger stacks relative to the blinds the ranges narrow due to the room for previous action in the hand. If you're playing 1-2NL with 1 million dollar stacks and on the river someone bets 300k as a value-bet it's nothing to do with psychology that he is likely to have a much narrower (to put it mildly) range than if he bet 60 as a value bet with $200 stacks. It's because there must have been a lot of freaking action for the pot to get that big and every time there's a bet or raise players are likely to have better hands than we could put them on before that action. Or am I being leveled?

[terp]

ikes,

first you said people never fold top2/sets here. when it was pointed out to you that not folding != bet flop, b3b turn, shove river, you retreated to some retarded assumptions about how people play. when people who play in these particular games told you (including the actual villain) that this line is NEVER top 2 and is rarely 44, you continued to rant.

i really wonder what you think you contribute here

[clowntable]

I never level :P
Yes I understand that it's the action that leads to the bet on the river that is important. But I got the impression from some of the responses that (ignoring previous action) they would be less likely to call a 1k bet into a 1k pot than a 5$ bet into a 5$ pot.
Just pointing out that this mindset should be lost as soon as possible because I know I struggled with this a lot (still do)

tl;dr: The absolute size of the final bet should not influence the decision making but the way the betting escalated the absolute size should