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#21
03-27-2006, 12:31 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
so really really worng. those games are the ideal place to learn about loose passive games. Pacific is one of the most lucrative places to play -- or was when I did play there.
They aren't poker players... wtf does this mean? It means that pacific players are not poker players they are gamblers from the 888 casino. They have no copncept of hand value and most will play any two cards regardless of any raises pre flop. Fantastic yes, but bear in mind if you can beat the pacific games it doesn't translate that you can beat games on other sites. Therefore it is not a good place to learn limit poker. The hand talked about in this post is a perfect example. On another site you'd never have the best hand given the river action but on pacific you just might. Plus playing as a TAG is not the optimal style on pacific because they have some many calling stations. Continuation betting when you missed the flop is pointless you'll never get everyone to fold. Wheras on other sites the Tag style will pick you up a lot of pots against weak tight players when you have nothing (a huge edge). You can't developing an instinct for when to be aggressive post flop on Pacific without help from the board. Similarly one pair on pacific is almost never enough to win a pot. Having AK pre flop 3 betting then 3 betting a K on the flop and perhaps the same on the turn and river with 3 or 4 ppl coming along only to see someone win when his 7 - 3 makes a straight is a common occurance so you have to adjust slightly. In short, the style of play to win at pacific is different to anywhere else, so therefore it is not the best place to learn. 
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#22
03-27-2006, 12:43 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
[ QUOTE ]
It means that pacific players are not poker players they are gamblers from the 888 casino. They have no copncept of hand value and most will play any two cards regardless of any raises pre flop. [...] Having AK pre flop 3 betting then 3 betting a K on the flop and perhaps the same on the turn and river with 3 or 4 ppl coming along only to see someone win when his 7 - 3 makes a straight is a common occurance so you have to adjust slightly. [/ QUOTE ] Well, I started on Party and skins, and recently started playing at UltimateBet and Cryptos, in addition to Pacific. If I want to become an excellent poker player, I think I need to learn to play and adjust to the kinds of players I am playing with. AK is a hand with a lot of variance. If you play it 100 times against 4 players, you will lose to 7-3 making a straight your share of times. But AK will probably turn out a winner against 4 players over the long haul. I agree that the continuation bet may not work against 3 opponents if you have missed overcards... Maybe then it's best to check and try to hit one of the overcards. But all of these games can be profitable, and you can learn something everywhere you play. I just learned how fun it is defending the big blind at the Cryptos. The table is full of rocks and TAGs. Folded around to the button, who raises. SB folds, I call in the BB with any 2. Flop goes I check, button bets, I call. Turn goes I check, button bets, I check-raise, button folds, I cheer! Fun. -Tom
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#23
03-27-2006, 12:56 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
[ QUOTE ]
so really really worng. those games are the ideal place to learn about loose passive games. Pacific is one of the most lucrative places to play -- or was when I did play there. They aren't poker players... wtf does this mean? It means that pacific players are not poker players they are gamblers from the 888 casino. They have no copncept of hand value and most will play any two cards regardless of any raises pre flop. Fantastic yes, but bear in mind if you can beat the pacific games it doesn't translate that you can beat games on other sites. Therefore it is not a good place to learn limit poker. The hand talked about in this post is a perfect example. On another site you'd never have the best hand given the river action but on pacific you just might. Plus playing as a TAG is not the optimal style on pacific because they have some many calling stations. Continuation betting when you missed the flop is pointless you'll never get everyone to fold. Wheras on other sites the Tag style will pick you up a lot of pots against weak tight players when you have nothing (a huge edge). You can't developing an instinct for when to be aggressive post flop on Pacific without help from the board. Similarly one pair on pacific is almost never enough to win a pot. Having AK pre flop 3 betting then 3 betting a K on the flop and perhaps the same on the turn and river with 3 or 4 ppl coming along only to see someone win when his 7 - 3 makes a straight is a common occurance so you have to adjust slightly. In short, the style of play to win at pacific is different to anywhere else, so therefore it is not the best place to learn. [/ QUOTE ] in a sense you are just arguing semantics. in a sense you are just still wrong. no matter what "site" you play at, you will need to adjust your play based on your opponents. at pacific, the vast majority of the opponents are loose and passive and suck at poker. of course, it should go without saying that betting AKo unimproved into 7 loose passive players who can't fold before showdown is bad poker. thats not "TAG" play, whatever you think that means, it's just bad poker. and playing a table of loose passive players is one of the most lucrative games possible. and whether is it the best place to learn depends on one's goals. but if you want skilled opposition, then yes, pacific is not the best place to learn.
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#24
03-27-2006, 04:50 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
no matter what "site" you play at, you will need to adjust your play based on your opponents
Most sites are relatively close. Pacific is a law unto it's own. it should go without saying that betting AKo unimproved into 7 loose passive players who can't fold before showdown is bad poker. thats not "TAG" play, whatever you think that means, it's just bad poker. That isn't what I suggested. There is no need to be obnoxious when I am simply trying to express the widely held opinion that pacific poker is different to every other site. I know exactly what tag means. I didn't suggest that betting into 7 players is tag. I suggested that you don't get a chance to learn about aggressively pushing people off hands because you are always in a pot with 3-7 people half of them calling stations. Stop twisting what I'm saying. If you play at pacific good luck to you obviously good players play there and do very well, but most players on that site are awful and therefore the game is different.
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#25
03-27-2006, 05:03 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
Pacific is loose and passive, and I get the impression that it is very similar to playing live... I've only played live twice but there were more 6-handed pots there than there are on Pacific. So, playing live is an important skill. Shouldn't we learn to do that too?
-Tom
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#26
03-27-2006, 05:12 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
I'd imagine it's the same as playing anywhere most of the players round the table have never read a poker book. But whats your goal? Mine is to be able to play 5/10 profitably. You'll not get those skills at pacific. I'm not having a go at anyone for playing there, I'm responding to the hand you posted. That hand will play out like that on one site and one site only and thats pacific. Therefore you got conflicting evidence where you made the right play that was actually the wrong play. If you spent a long time at pacific exclusively it can rub off on you and you can learn bad poker.
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#27
03-27-2006, 06:00 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
Good poker is not playing out of habit. Good poker is understanding why you do everything you do and learning what adjustments to make against different opponents.
If your reaction to a 5/10 game that plays like a .5/1 game is "Crap, now I don't know what to do because this isn't real poker," you're a bad player.
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#28
03-27-2006, 06:16 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
If your reaction to a 5/10 game that plays like a .5/1 game is "Crap, now I don't know what to do because this isn't real poker," you're a bad player.
I didn't say i reacted like that to pacific. I said I wouldn't recommend starting out on pacific because it is so unique.
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#29
03-27-2006, 06:54 PM
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Re: Too loose on the later streets vs folding the winning hand
[ QUOTE ]
I just learned how fun it is defending the big blind at the Cryptos. The table is full of rocks and TAGs. Folded around to the button, who raises. SB folds, I call in the BB with any 2. Flop goes I check, button bets, I call. Turn goes I check, button bets, I check-raise, button folds, I cheer! Fun. -Tom [/ QUOTE ] I have also just discovered how much fun this is. The trick is choosing your strategy based on your opponent. 1/2 crypto is a TAG-fest and some of them are very switched on to what is happening. Pick the wrong player and you are paying out a fair whack of cash...
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