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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 08:13 PM
Phil153 Phil153 is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

Your autonomy points are perfectly reasonable, and I think few here disagree that personal autonomy is massively important.

But let me ask you this:

Do you believe we should intervene in the case of schizophrenics, or should they be free to cut themselves during a relapse "to get the demons out"? This isn't some made up scenarios, this stuff (and worse) actually happens - to people who are quite normal when not suffering from psychosis.

As for the slippery slope argument, the interesting thing is that a greater understanding of the brain has lead to greater personal freedom for almost all mentally ill. Please explain?
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 08:40 PM
wtfsvi wtfsvi is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

I don't think it's necessarily and always wrong to prevent suicide or to prevent people people from cutting themselves, but I think the burden of proof that someone is not acting rationally is on you if you want stop someone. And it applies again every time you want to stop someone new/again. Appealing to statistics and saying most people that try to committ suicide are later thankful of someone who stopped them doesn't cut it. (I don't know to what degree it's true either.)
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2007, 10:17 PM
Jcrew Jcrew is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pro choice because I don't consider the fetus (or a lower level tard, for that matter) to be human.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you believe that there should be any consequences for the mother if she engages in blatant activities while pregnant and planning to give birth, that will result in permanent suffering of the child (ie drinking/drugging while pregnant that results in abnormalities )?
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:05 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you believe we should intervene in the case of schizophrenics, or should they be free to cut themselves during a relapse "to get the demons out"? This isn't some made up scenarios, this stuff (and worse) actually happens - to people who are quite normal when not suffering from psychosis.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does, "we should intervene" mean?

I've been held against my will in situations after cutting or burning my own self, in institutional environments that definitely did more harm than good. I don't cut or burn any more, but I am still enraged at these violations (one in particular). Who says it's your job, or the government's, or anyone else's, to choose what's best for me? To evaluate my rationality and determine what choice I have over my own life and my own body?

Then again, I've had bad experiences. If I hadn't, I might be saying "intervention saved my life, I'm so glad." And some people are so clearly dangerous and insane that there's no question of letting them be. Where can we draw the line? I suppose there are worse places than "serious danger to self or others." Depressed people can seem very rational, but I know from experience that everything gets distorted.

I don't think there will be any easy answers until our understanding and treatment of these illnesses have improved.
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:58 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]

Should a pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself?

[/ QUOTE ]

Should a non pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself if in the process she also killed her 6 year old child?
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:35 AM
JayTee JayTee is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Should a pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself?

[/ QUOTE ]

Should a non pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself if in the process she also killed her 6 year old child?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what point you are trying to make here? If the fetus is self sustainable then the two situations are similar but still have significant difference. What if the 6 year old was still breast feeding from the mother and would starve without her (would refuse to eat or drink anything else)?
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2007, 02:49 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Should a pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself?

[/ QUOTE ]

Should a non pregnant woman be allowed to kill herself if in the process she also killed her 6 year old child?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what point you are trying to make here? If the fetus is self sustainable then the two situations are similar but still have significant difference. What if the 6 year old was still breast feeding from the mother and would starve without her (would refuse to eat or drink anything else)?

[/ QUOTE ]

The question was asked about prolife people who (generally) are pro life because they believe the fetus is a human life and the mother has no right to kill it. From their view why would the reasoning be any different from that of forbidding a mother from killing herself by driving into a lake with her child in the car with her?
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:09 AM
Mr_Moore Mr_Moore is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's necessarily and always wrong to prevent suicide or to prevent people people from cutting themselves, but I think the burden of proof that someone is not acting rationally is on you if you want stop someone. And it applies again every time you want to stop someone new/again. Appealing to statistics and saying most people that try to committ suicide are later thankful of someone who stopped them doesn't cut it. (I don't know to what degree it's true either.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the burden of proof is on me I must stop that person from suiciding so that I can make sure that his rationality is indeed intact, so I will need to prevent the suicide, ask a couple of questions, makes sure everything is in order and then send him/her to their death.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:08 AM
Max Raker Max Raker is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's necessarily and always wrong to prevent suicide or to prevent people people from cutting themselves, but I think the burden of proof that someone is not acting rationally is on you if you want stop someone. And it applies again every time you want to stop someone new/again. Appealing to statistics and saying most people that try to committ suicide are later thankful of someone who stopped them doesn't cut it. (I don't know to what degree it's true either.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the burden of proof is on me I must stop that person from suiciding so that I can make sure that his rationality is indeed intact, so I will need to prevent the suicide, ask a couple of questions, makes sure everything is in order and then send him/her to their death.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if it was someone who you loved?
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2007, 08:36 AM
Jamougha Jamougha is offline
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Default Re: Quick question for pro life people.

Obviously, the only correct punishment for suicide is the death penalty. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Not really sure what people mean by 'allowed' in this sense.
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