A Rape Hypothetical (silly, but also serious)

[ALawPoker]

Play along with me.

Some guy comes to your house, holds a gun to your head, and tells you that you have to choose one of 3 girls. And the one you choose will be the girl that he takes your friend to visit and will tell her she has to have sex with him (at gunpoint if need be).

Girl A is ugly with low standards, girl B is average looking with average standards, and girl C is really hot and really prude. Your friend would love to bang C, would mildly enjoy B, and would not want to do A.

You have to pick one. There's no avoiding that. Let's say letting the guy shoot you isn't a good option either (as if it would be anyways), because somehow you know he will kill your friend and all the girls if you don't pick someone. Which girl do you choose?

The hot one right? Why not. That seems easy enough to conclude.

*You're* not the one raping someone. Your friend isn't the one raping someone. You're forced to pick A, B, or C, and they're all rape. So might as well pick the hot one.

But isn't choice C more harmful than choice B? Both situations are rape, so it's hard to look past that and I can see why it's easy to consider them the exact same thing. But they're not. Two unique situations are never the exact same thing. I think C (and A for that matter) is clearly more harmful than B (since I think the harm of having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with drastically outweighs the pleasure of banging someone you really want). With girl B, neither your friend nor the girl is grossly offended by the actual sexual experience. With girl C, +EV for your friend, but very much -EV for the girl. So to me, picking B is probably better most of the time, even though abstractly you support the idea of banging hot chics.

You're not a rapist. You're a good person. You would never force yourself on a girl if she didn't want it. But when you're faced with the decision of B vs. C (and choosing one is inevitable), I think a lot (maybe most) people will choose C. Hot chic, obviously you'll choose her over someone average.

But you'll only choose that way when you're not the one acting. If you were acting, you'd never have to think the consequences through, because the mistake would register as obvious.

When someone acts on your behalf (and can not change his mind), the consequences don't resonate as clearly and naturally as they would if you yourself were acting.

And you shouldn't expect things to be as clear. We evolved via face to face experience (our world was what's in front of us), so the right way to approach important decisions is mostly hardwired into us. If you were in the room, you'd make your sexual advances on girl B, and the idea of forcing yourself on girl C would never even cross your mind. You'll realize that banging B is a much better idea. It's not like you'll ever be in a room where girl A has her pants off and her legs open, girl B is smiling and flirtatious, and girl C is in a corner with her back to you, but you decide that making sexual advances on C is the better play. But when you choose girls for someone else to force themselves on, you might pick something that's clearly harmful just because you don't have enough information.

When we vote we do the same thing. It's not as clear to us what's best, because we're forced to consciously analyze things that we're better equipped to handle subconsciously.

Voting and regulation might work if we were omniscient (or in other words, it can work when you don't need it anyways). But since we're not omniscient and we can't consciously evaluate every input that contributes to our decision, it will just deflect decisions away from the most rational actor and it will always tend to screw things up.

[DMACM]

Playing along with this absurd hypothetical I think the right thing to do is choose A. For evolutionary reasons, and everything I've read seems to confirm for me that rape is much worse for a woman than a man.

Because A is ugly and has low standards she will experience the least discomfort from sleeping with your friend. As you said, and I think correctly, the pleasure of banging a hot girl isnt as serious as the discomfort for a girl of being forced to sleep with someone you dont want.

Basically its the woman who is getting psychologically messed up here and the guy wont suffer much from having to bang an ugly girl. In fact I'd rather bang an ugly girl that wanted me. Being forced to rape even a hot girl would obviously be horrible.

[pokerbobo]

I say choose C.... not only is she hot, but she is prude. Rape tends to screw with the female sexual attitude in various ways, either turning them off to sex even more, or making them freakier. Either way, you turn a hot prude freakier, or she still avoids sex, (no real change physically, just mentally)

[PLOlover]

so you're saying the american people who are ostensibly the ultimate poitical power in the US bear no responsibility for atrocities or war crimes or just the general killing and suffering of US wars?

[ALawPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
so you're saying the american people who are ostensibly the ultimate poitical power in the US bear no responsibility for atrocities or war crimes or just the general killing and suffering of US wars?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hrmm?

I'm saying that the way we think about situations when we are experiencing them first hand is very much different (and better) than the way we think about them when we stereotype a situation (which is what you do when you vote) and ask someone else to act for us.

EDIT: If you're determined to talk about foreign policy, I think whatever "crimes" you could attribute to the US government is VERY MUCH the responsibility of people who vote. They're making an error. They're not necessarily likely to harm you personally, but they apparently ARE likely to deflect harm to you by asking other people to do it.

[CallMeIshmael]

This depends on the friend.


If he gets laid a lot, A. Average, B. Virgin/rarely, I'll set him up with C.

[ALawPoker]

[ QUOTE ]
This depends on the friend.


If he gets laid a lot, A. Average, B. Virgin/rarely, I'll set him up with C.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... you think the difference in the degree of harm caused by rapeA vs. rapeC would be negligible enough that even a close friend's enormous sexual gratification could outweigh it?

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm... you think the difference in the degree of harm caused by rapeA vs. rapeC would be negligible enough that even a close friend's enormous sexual gratification could outweigh it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.


But, only if he doesnt get it that often. If he is a mad PUA, I'd get a lot of enjoyment out of sticking him with the fatty.

[bobman0330]

The problem with this hypo is that if your friend is going to enjoy raping a hot chick, I'm not sure he's the sort of person whose desires you should be catering to in the first place.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this hypo is that if your friend is going to enjoy raping a hot chick, I'm not sure he's the sort of person whose desires you should be catering to in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

that, and I really doubt there is going to be a nontrivial difference between the degree of damage infliced on the three people in OP, given they are being raped at gunpoint.