NLHTP#15 Swapping Mistakes & Adjusting to Loose Games and Players

[wallenborn]

Swapping Mistakes

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The key to no limit hold'em success isn't to play perfectly. It's to swap mistakes with your opponents. You trade small mistakes to your opponents if they will trade back big ones.

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There may be such a thing as a mathematically perfect poker strategy, and if you played it, you wouldn't lose. But it would be a defensive strategy. The best players don't play the perfect defense. They go on the attack, even if that means exposing a few vulnerabilities.

This works in multiway situations, too. Say, one player likes to play big pots preflop out of position tooo often. You might adjust to that by playing marginal hands in position more often and more often fast. Other players might spot that and try to exploit you by reraising light from the blinds. As long as the edge you get against the loose player is bigger than the edge you give up against the others, you'll have the best of it. But be vigilant: always be aware what mistakes your are trading. When your mistakes become the big ones, stop making them.

Adjusting to Loose Games and Players

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Don't play your loose opponents for live ones until you see them make at least one major error for a large bet.

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After establishing that your opponent is not just loose, but bad, too, make the following adjustments:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Loosen up. Play looser preflop when the loose opponent has entered the hand, especially when you are in position.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Big preflop pots with big pairs. Avoid big pots preflop with big unpaired cards, such as AK, though.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Value bet top pair and oberpair hands aggressively.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Bluff less often.

[xxrod17xx]

I really hate the advice to loosen up in looser games. I may be bias because I am still a low limit player, but you even see this at 10/20-20/40NL on Live at the Bike. Corporation Mike makes the game loosen up and all of a sudden good players are playing hands they shouldnt. I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much). Again I play 1/2NL in the casino and micro limits online so I probably have a bias towards the strategy that works for me, but loosening up seems to play into LAG players game. Please le me know your thoughts on this because I don't want to have just one view on how to play the game, but this does not seem like a piece of advice that goes with the rest of the themes in this book.

[GiantBuddha]

There's different types of loose games, and there's different ways of loosening up.

In a game where lots of players like to limp in and then play reasonably well on the flop, loosening up might not get you too far. However, if your opponents like to limp and then play too loose with their drawing and one pair hands after the flop, you've found a very profitable game. In a game like this you should probably play many hands cheap and then punish your opponents who make mistakes for big bets down the line.

In a game where lots of players like to call raises of 8-10BB cold to see a flop, then play reasonably well from there, you should probably tighten up and make most of your money from the big preflop mistakes your opponents are making. A lot of live $1-2 games play this way.

In general, if postflop play isn't one of your strengths, then loosening up can get very dangerous. I find myself usually playing against the grain, where online I play much looser than live, while the games are much tighter than live. Trying to steal blinds in the live games I play isn't really an option, though. It's also critical to be very aware of the "mistakes" which you're trading and to make sure you don't give up so much that your opponents aren't giving it back and then some.

[LearningCurve]

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I really hate the advice to loosen up in looser games. I may be bias because I am still a low limit player, but you even see this at 10/20-20/40NL on Live at the Bike. Corporation Mike makes the game loosen up and all of a sudden good players are playing hands they shouldnt. I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much). Again I play 1/2NL in the casino and micro limits online so I probably have a bias towards the strategy that works for me, but loosening up seems to play into LAG players game. Please le me know your thoughts on this because I don't want to have just one view on how to play the game, but this does not seem like a piece of advice that goes with the rest of the themes in this book.

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Yes, this is the first time I've ever heard to play looser in a looser game. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Maybe the idea is that if you are a good post-flop player then it may behoove you to splash around a bit more in position. Obviously when you miss you get out quickly and cheaply, but when you hit you can value bet into the villain for everything he's worth. IDK, I'm certainly still working on my post-flop play so this might not be a good move for me, but perhaps more experienced and better post-flop players may find it advantageous?

[GiantBuddha]

I personally try to play a few extra hands when I can so that I'll become a better postflop player. It's hard to learn without practice. Of course, I try not to get retarted with it.

[aslowjoe]

This sort of goes with my post today about adjusting to different games. I have been outplayed by players that I felt in general are too loose pre and post flop.
My first problem existed when I try to isolate the loose limpers with a raise in postion with a mediocre hand. I end up just bloating the pot with a mediocre hand.
Also another mistake that I have made in these games too often is stealing the blinds. In a nitty games I have been succesful stealing the blinds with a huge range of hands. About 35%. In these loose games I get called many times. Now you would think that against a weak loose player that playing any 2 cards in postion should be profitable with the theory that he is going to make more mistakes then you post flop and you have postion but sofar it hasnt worked out that way.
My adjustment is to tighten up more, raise less for anything other then value.

my other post
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...e=0#Post9525965

[AFCBeer]

I think some people might be getting confused between loose games and aggressive games. I think what that chapter in the book is referring to are the sort of opponents who like to limp into pots with lots of hands and play very passively post flop. However, they will still call down big bets that you make.

This is why you can afford to play more hands. You get to see the flop cheaply, you get to draw cheaply (or even for free) and get paid off.

With loose and aggressive games, its more expensive to see the flop and you get bet off your draws. I agree in these games your value comes from playing stronger starting hands.

[capodu]

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I feel strongly about playing really snug, maybe even a short stack in loose games because people are going to be making a lot of big mistakes against you (i.e. calling preflop without getting proper implied odds, calling pre and post flop with dominated hands, calling a tight players bets too much).

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This is completely wrong... any decent loose player will notice that you are playing tight and snug and not pay you off in much at all. The thing that this chapter is saying is making money off of your opponents mistakes. This comes about the fact that against loose-passive/agressive or loose-passive/passive players you can play more hands against them since you will be playing better then them post flop (a loose-passive/tight-aggressive game). Since you are going to be a better post flop player then playing as many hands as possible agaisnt them will increase your earning even though you are playing marginal hands.

[CaptVimes]

We cannot talk about loose and tight without considering the overall aggressiveness that opponents are displaying. In loose passive games I am calling a lot more hands from LP and then value bet. In loose aggro games I tend to tighten up looking for monsters, because they generally tend to get paid off. In neither game am I getting aggressive without a hand unless I know the individual villain is weak tight.

My favorite hand from yesterday was getting AA in the small blind and some lagtard raised the pot to .55 from UTG+2 and three people called him. I shoved figuring someone was going to put me on a steal. Sure enough some guy with 77 calls. Yahtzee.

[CaptVimes]

Capodu is right, that's why this quote is so important...


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Don't play your loose opponents for live ones until you see them make at least one major error for a large bet.

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My earlier post references my play at NL10 where not a whole lot of people pay attention. I still play my regular game, whatever that is, for the first couple of orbits until I find the people I want to play against. In loose games they make themselves known pretty quickly.