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#41
04-10-2007, 11:20 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
So in AC people voluntarily give money to some organization to protect them. This is somehow just completely different and ensures no coercion whatsoever [/ QUOTE ] First off, stop making strawmen. No one said it "ensures no coercion whatsoever". We see it as minimalization. [ QUOTE ] Fill in the blank please. [/ QUOTE ] Umm, it's voluntary, you can stop doing service with some protection agency if you don't like it. Try not paying your taxes. 
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#42
04-10-2007, 11:34 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
Umm, it's voluntary, you can stop doing service with some protection agency if you don't like it. [/ QUOTE ] But you will still need protection, so its not really voluntary is it. In fact it's not unlike a tax.
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#43
04-10-2007, 11:37 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Umm, it's voluntary, you can stop doing service with some protection agency if you don't like it. [/ QUOTE ] But you will still need protection, so its not really voluntary is it. In fact it's not unlike a tax. [/ QUOTE ] Men with guns show up at your house if you don't pay your tax. Sounds like mafia 'protection' to me.
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#44
04-10-2007, 11:39 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Umm, it's voluntary, you can stop doing service with some protection agency if you don't like it. [/ QUOTE ] But you will still need protection, so its not really voluntary is it. In fact it's not unlike a tax. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah and you need to eat. So using the services of food providers are not voluntary. In fact they are not unlike a tax.
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#46
04-10-2007, 11:45 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Umm, it's voluntary, you can stop doing service with some protection agency if you don't like it. [/ QUOTE ] But you will still need protection, so its not really voluntary is it. In fact it's not unlike a tax. [/ QUOTE ] FARMERS are TAXING me by TAKING ADVANTAGE of my NEED to EAT!!!!
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#47
04-10-2007, 11:50 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah and you need to eat. So using the services of food providers are not voluntary. In fact they are not unlike a tax [/ QUOTE ] Correct. Sustinence is a tax your body charges to keep functioning. Would you be able to suspend this too in AC Land.
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#48
04-11-2007, 12:17 AM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well I think libertarians in general horribly misunderstand how one can "harm others or themselves [/ QUOTE ] Translation: they have a different view than me. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that's definitely a reasonable defense.
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#49
04-11-2007, 12:21 AM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Well I think libertarians in general horribly misunderstand how one can "harm others or themselves [/ QUOTE ] Translation: they have a different view than me. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that's definitely a reasonable defense. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, you 'understand' how one can harm others and themselves and these libertarians are stupid because they 'horribly' misunderstand what is clear to you. No, you can't be wrong. It's the other people. And you are willing to teach them at the barrel of a gun...
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#50
04-11-2007, 12:39 AM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Stop being a jackass. You started *your* hypothetical with a given (that everyone agrees they don't need government anymore) and then act like people who don't act in a certain way *when that given is not actually in place* are somehow being inconsistent or somehow revealing some weakness in their arguments. Are you really claiming that you can't understand how it would be much easier to "defend yourself from the goverment" if everyone agreed with you that the government was illegitimate? Come on. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? I said people want to move to AC. I: a) Did not say everyone, although I see how this is implied. I just meant "we" as in "collectively we generally move in this direction". b) Did not say everyone wants to get rid of coercion all together. I guess if we are allowed to create a fairy tale world in which that is the case all problems are solved. [/ QUOTE ] What does (b) have to do with (a)? In fact, what does (b) have to do with anything anybody said? Thread synopsis: You make a hypothetical, people respond based on YOUR hypothetical, you call them retarded for stating things that depend on YOUR hypothetical because they don't act that way in the real world where YOUR hypothetical doesn't hold. Grow up. [/ QUOTE ] Again, you seem to imply that a move towards AC is automatically a move towards no coercion. I can desire a move towards AC and still have in mind a means to coerce people into giving me money. I am asking, and have been asking, how it is that we are supposed to prevent large concentrations of power and the coercion that inevitably follows. Let's dispense with the useless sidetalk, it's not like I've invented some sort of extraordinarily stylized hypothetical scenario. This is a basic question.
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