Ram Vaswani speaks about that 'Golf Game'.

[NLfool]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
limon, vhawk, etc.

So, you're professional golf hustlers. You make a living lying about your abilities to gullible fools with too deep pockets and too much gamble in them. That's fine by me. Idiot tax I says.

But.. Stop projecting your own experiences onto the situation that is being discussed here. Consider the following facts:

1) Ram considered Ivey a friend before the match.
2) Ram isn't a professional golf hustler in the sense you are. Sure, he plays golf for money, but don't assume he lives by your so-called ethical code.
3) For most people, apparently outside your circle, sandbagging is not only considered unethical, but also as downright cheating.

Consider those facts, and consider that Ram isn't privy to your insider-golf-hustler-douchebag ethical code, is it so far fetched to say that Ram has a legitimate grievance here?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[/ QUOTE ]
Please elaborate mr. Bear

[/ QUOTE ]

in the gambling world you play anyone for that amount of money you should see a lot of the angles and the points you list are factors even beginners see. A veteran in this world doesn't miss those points so those aren't valid reasons for not paying

[ZeTurd]

[ QUOTE ]
in the gambling world you play anyone for that amount of money you should see a lot of the angles and the points you list are factors even beginners see. A veteran in this world doesn't miss those points so those aren't valid reasons for not paying

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is that a given? Ram is obviously a very accomplished poker player, and yes, he's known to have a lot of gamble in him. Does that mean he automatically should have known about the intricacies that are obviously present in golf gambling? Does it mean he shouldn't be able to trust people he consider friends?

I mean, come on. We've got some very valid input from people that hustle golf for a living here, They might feel OK with their ethical code, and they might even feel that others should feel OK with it as well, but do any of you know Ram personally? Do you know to what extent he was aware of the so-called ethical code of golf gambling? Nah, I didn't think so.

I can just relate from my own personal perspective.

If someone who I considered a friend of mine blatantly lied to me in what was considered a friendly prop bet, I would not only not pay him, I would no longer consider him a friend.

Of course, if Ram was all aware of the "golf hustling" game, the situation changes, but who exactly in this thread has the inside knowledge to say that he had?

[Todd Brunson]

He did agree to arbitration. What are you talking about?

[tiltseeker]

[ QUOTE ]
He did agree to arbitration. What are you talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why should Phil agree to arbitration?

[Todd Brunson]

well said

[ZeTurd]

[ QUOTE ]
He did agree to arbitration. What are you talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]
As someone who might have inside knowledge on this issue, was Barry Greenstein supposed to be an independent arbitrator or was he brought in to fight for Ivey?

[smak]

Ram gave away any claim he had to being cheated by continuing to play over many days.

This isn't pickup basketball, where the guy has improved, but you're already down 7-0 playing to 11, because he makes 5 shots in a row.

This is hundreds of shots, drives, irons, pitches, chips, putts. A guy that is playing that much better than you expected, you would realize very very soon.

Plus didn't Ram continue at a natural stopping point, when his partner left, and didn't they up the stakes?

Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

[noidea]

[ QUOTE ]
Ram gave away any claim he had to being cheated by continuing to play over many days.

This isn't pickup basketball, where the guy has improved, but you're already down 7-0 playing to 11, because he makes 5 shots in a row.

This is hundreds of shots, drives, irons, pitches, chips, putts. A guy that is playing that much better than you expected, you would realize very very soon.

Plus didn't Ram continue at a natural stopping point, when his partner left, and didn't they up the stakes?

Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lindgren gave his boy up after the match.According to Rams post so did other poker players.

You are on safer ground sticking to
Ivey lying about his handicap = good, coz hes a hustla,
Ram not paying guy who tied to cheat him = bad,coz scumbag rules state he is morally obligated to pay the cheat.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
Fwiw, i think PI bringing his close friend Barry G to fight his corner in what was assumed to be independant arbitration in round 1 is way more scummy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Barry G was brought in presumably because people generally respect his integrity, so he'd be someone that both Phil and Ram could trust to decide the matter fairly.

If Ram didn't want Barry G to be an arbitrator for whatever reason, no biggie. Ram can suggest someone else that both guys trust.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
My question to Phil is, if you position is as undeniably righteous as you claim why not agree to an arbitrator?

[/ QUOTE ]
According to Ram's version of events, Phil was willing to arbitrate the matter. Ram wasn't.