NL500 4-bet QQ, possible fish, just gotta fold?

_JerryD_ · #1 11-19-2007, 09:17 PM

Prima Network No-Limit Hold'em, $5.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($1053.56)
UTG ($833.96)
MP ($141.00)
CO ($492.50)
Hero ($458.45)
SB ($1422.71)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, BB raises to $65, Hero raises to $200, BB calls $135.

Flop: ($402.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain bets $100.62. Hero (258$ left)???

Villain seemed like a fish, and we had tangled a lot before and the table was very lively as well. Against a AQs+,JJ+ -range we have 45% equity which would make shoving right - ofcourse this is a highly optimistical range and i don't really know what kind of a player this is and what the hell is he calling 4-bets oop with. Limped a lot and played with 38/15 stats. Do you just bite your tongue and fold?

donkeykong2 · #2 11-19-2007, 09:34 PM

ugly spot. i think you probably should fold as he can have kk or aa and that would leave you drawing almost dead.

mustmuck · #3 11-19-2007, 09:41 PM

You have to fold here. Also I think you 4 bet a bit too much for your stack size ... if you're going to 4 bet so much you should just shove.

_JerryD_ · #4 11-19-2007, 11:40 PM

Hmmm... Why in earth would a shove be better than a standard 4-bet (just forgot to reload, hence 92bb) that gets called. I didn't think we were 4-betting QQ against a fish for folding equity.

I forgot to mention that I lost a few pots there and might have looked like i was steaming (which in fact i was)

stackingboxes · #5 11-19-2007, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to fold here. Also I think you 4 bet a bit too much for your stack size ... if you're going to 4 bet so much you should just shove.

[/ QUOTE ] u don't make sense...about the 4 bet part.

Praetor · #6 11-20-2007, 12:05 AM

that bet would tilt me

mustmuck · #7 11-20-2007, 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to fold here. Also I think you 4 bet a bit too much for your stack size ... if you're going to 4 bet so much you should just shove.

[/ QUOTE ] u don't make sense...about the 4 bet part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if I'm 4 betting less than a shove I usually 4 bet an amount that doesn't commit me to call a shove with my entire range. So in these situations I make it ~140 or shove.

LysSta · #8 11-20-2007, 09:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... Why in earth would a shove be better than a standard 4-bet (just forgot to reload, hence 92bb) that gets called. I didn't think we were 4-betting QQ against a fish for folding equity.

I forgot to mention that I lost a few pots there and might have looked like i was steaming (which in fact i was)

[/ QUOTE ]cuz u commit yourself into going all in on the flop anyway how can u fold QQ after such a huge raise... and your tilt image dosnt help also his calling range is going to be bigger. shove or call pre-flop

ArturiusX · #9 11-20-2007, 09:29 AM

I'd usually just shove pre if you look like you're tilting.

As played, meh, your equity sucks vs his range, gota fold.

_JerryD_ · #10 11-23-2007, 06:02 PM

Just came back from Portugal, so I could end this story:

As I said I actually was in fact steaming, but I didn't have a crazy image in the table - maybe looked frustrated and semi-tilting because lost like 3/4-buy in and being bullied.

After that flop bet i sort of lost it and just thought *** it i'm gonna go all-in against this douchebag, i have some outs. He showed KJo (LOL) and I was actually in a really bad spot. But the flop shove was bad, just couldn't fold in that state of mind - thanks for pointing it out for all that i have no excuse.

Now for the 4-bet part. People are so RO.. LOL, it doesn't matter if he thinks i'm committed on the flop when i have 70% equity and he's calling. He folds his KJos and whatnot to a 4-bet all-in but calls this big 4-bet. There's no sense in people's comments about making the 4-bet smaller except ArturiusX - with making the point that if you're tilting it isn't optimal, but i didn't have that crazy of an image and there was no way he would have called an all-in bet with KJo.
[ QUOTE ]
cuz u commit yourself into going all in on the flop anyway how can u fold QQ after such a huge raise...

[/ QUOTE ]
Wtf, this isn't very smart imo. If he is prepared to call my 200$ 4-bet with 30% equity that is optimal and there's nothing wrong with it. It has nothing to do with the flop action and doesn't in anyway justify his call with the 3-outer (basically). I should have folded the flop obv, but i'm really having a hard time digesting these 4-bet smaller comments here and I find the comments not very useful.