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  #251  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:37 AM
polkaface polkaface is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

Where is all this talk that Bartlett is a defensive upgrade coming from? He led the league in errors, has a slightly above avg RF which translates to a 4th lowest fielding percentage for SS.

It was his bat that the Twins loved right away. He started 06 in AAA because of his defense, despite being given every opportunity in 05 and 06 to take the starting job after getting rid of Guzman.

** Disclaimer I am not a Bill James disciple (I like his work, but am not up to date on all of these new stats and what they mean yet) so maybe there are 10 other stats out there that say Bartlett isn't bad at SS, but when I watch the games, he isn't anything special to me there.
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  #252  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:38 AM
Vyse Vyse is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

why don't the twins just get hitting from santana, though. angels and dodgers both have it. santana for kemp. problem solved. accepted. santana for laroche + other stuff, maybe loney if the dodgers smoke rock, but laroche by himself is fine. angels would love to do a deal.

don't blame attitude problems on the organization, it's the person's problem.

mauer for the long time may not happen since they probably can't afford him at this rate lololol
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  #253  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:05 PM
Thremp Thremp is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
also, delmon as much as he's maligned here, could possibly stand to get out of tampa into a different system. TB hasn't been very good about keeping their talent happy. Minn also has really strong pitching and putrid corner OFs, this solves a large whole and gives them some shot at getting a superstar in rf to go with mauer for the long haul.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with him sucking is that each year he takes longer to "get it" puts him farther from ever being a superstar. I'd probably say he was more likely 2 years ago to be a superstar than now.
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  #254  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:15 PM
DesertCat DesertCat is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

rwperu,

I am probably being too hard on DY, I actually think he'll be a decent Major leaguer, I'm just real skeptical of him being a superstar. And I probably over rated his horrible time in CF, and some hearsay that his throws were constantly off line.

But you are ignoring some tremendous issues. DY has never hit for power in AAA or the majors yet, so its hard to say he has that tool. He also has a horrible OBP, which trumps BA, so saying he hits for average is true, but not useful. He should have the hitting for average tool deducted because he fails at the plate discipline tool. This also shows how lame the scouts five tools list is when it ignores more important metrics.

But the most important point I made was service time. DY appears to be the type that is going to need a couple more years before he can be a plus contributer. That means he'll be in arb or FA at the wrong time for the Twins.

Garza has similar service time, but strikes me as an average to above average starter (he's been unlucky on BABIP) right now. That's worth, what, $9m a year to TB, until arb drives his salary closer to market. Young may be worth nothing the next two years.

The Twins can still do well if he develops, my understanding is they are stocked with young pitching. They need position players. That's why trades happen

Go back to your list and find the guys who struggled two years in a row at the upper minors and majors. It happens even to guys who turn out to be solid MLB players. But its a big clue that its unlikely the player will become a star.
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  #255  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:27 PM
DesertCat DesertCat is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

And you can add BJ Upton to your list. He stank in 2006 and had a big year this year, so he's an example of a guy who had one bad year, but kept improving and figured out how to hit at the MLB level.

I thought his little brother was over-rated after a 700 OPS at low A (age 18). But he put up 900s in A and AA at age 19, and that's an amazing progression in one year, even if he struggled offensively and defensively in the Majors in the second half of the year. Now I think he's a huge prospect, but if he doesn't improve next year I will start to wonder if he will fulfill all my expectations even though he'll still be 20.
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  #256  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:37 PM
Vyse Vyse is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

upton had a built-in excuse: staying in the minors too long and getting "bored." plus he played / plays a premium position. if young played 2B or something then i'd be a lot less hard on him.

btw, average / above average starter = worth way more than $9m a year.
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  #257  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:50 PM
sylar sylar is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The longer he stagnates the less likely it is he'll achieve his upside.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's 22 in 2008.

[/ QUOTE ]

beat me to it. 2nd in RoY voting!!! what does anyone think of Young's CF skills? he seems to do better in RF, but just wondering.

maybe the yankees insisted on getting a CF player in return in the Santana/Hughes/Melky+prospects trade. could Young never actually play for the Twins? longshot, i know.
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  #258  
Old 11-29-2007, 12:52 PM
Vyse Vyse is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

lol young + santana for tabata + hughes + melky + horne

lollerskates
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  #259  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:05 PM
sylar sylar is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

would you do young+santana for hughes+melky+B-prospect?
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  #260  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:06 PM
Thremp Thremp is offline
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Default Re: ***Official 2007-2008 MLB Offseason Thread***

[ QUOTE ]
would you do young+santana for hughes+melky+B-prospect?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is such a horrific trade.
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