How does anyone make money in limit holdem?

bocablkr · #1 03-31-2006, 10:02 AM

Sorry if this has been asked before but I am usually only a NL player. I make decent money at NL holdem, both live and online, because I can occasionally bluff someone off a hand and I can also protect my premium hands from getting out drawed.

However, in limit holdem I am an average player. I can never protect my great hands - AA gets cracked often by draws and most bluffs get called. It seems to be pure mathematics in play, no real skill set required. Without the ability to force people out of draws or to really bluff how do you make money at limit if most people are fairly knowledgeable? What is your edge? Is it easier to force people off draws if the limits are higher?

ShineOn · #2 03-31-2006, 10:49 AM

There are different skills involved in limit than in NL. There are different ways to knock people off draws (some more complicated than others. Many of these are covered quite well in SSHE.

As far as it being easier to knock people off hands more at higher limits...this is true. But NOT because the value of the bet is larger (it is relatively the same). The reason is that at higher limits there are typically less people seeing the flop, making draws less profitable on later streets.

Beachman42 · #3 03-31-2006, 10:57 AM

Due to limit's more mechanical nature, you can develop reads on who will chase with odds and who chases without odds. Adapt your play to the style for your opponent and don't whine when someone sucks out with a 5 outer when the pot gives 10:1 odds.

bocablkr · #4 03-31-2006, 11:03 AM

Thanks for your higher limit perspective.

However, I have read many books and the advice here on 2+2 SSHE. What I am saying is that even when I follow the advice and make it unprofitable for someone to call on a draw they seem to do it. Then I get busted. I am hard pressed to remember a time when I can bet,raise, or check raise someone off a hand. Maybe it is just the limit stakes (1/2 or less) I play in or I am with a lot of calling stations (which you would think would be profitable). I barely break even...

BK1248 · #5 03-31-2006, 11:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your higher limit perspective.

However, I have read many books and the advice here on 2+2 SSHE. What I am saying is that even when I follow the advice and make it unprofitable for someone to call on a draw they seem to do it. Then I get busted. I am hard pressed to remember a time when I can bet,raise, or check raise someone off a hand. Maybe it is just the limit stakes (1/2 or less) I play in or I am with a lot of calling stations (which you would think would be profitable). I barely break even...

[/ QUOTE ]

ur not too good , bottom line. gl

ShineOn · #6 03-31-2006, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What I am saying is that even when I follow the advice and make it unprofitable for someone to call on a draw they seem to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is great news. The more times someone makes an unprofitable call against you, the more you will make in the long run. It does suck when you get drawn out on by a 4 outer when the pot doesnt support the draw, but you have to remember that these are exactly the people you want in the pot.

You just have to smile and remember that the money is coming your way in the long run.

bocablkr · #7 03-31-2006, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your higher limit perspective.

However, I have read many books and the advice here on 2+2 SSHE. What I am saying is that even when I follow the advice and make it unprofitable for someone to call on a draw they seem to do it. Then I get busted. I am hard pressed to remember a time when I can bet,raise, or check raise someone off a hand. Maybe it is just the limit stakes (1/2 or less) I play in or I am with a lot of calling stations (which you would think would be profitable). I barely break even...

[/ QUOTE ]

ur not too good , bottom line. gl

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be the case in limit - but I am up $86,000 over 18 months playing live NL and pot limit games. Do you really think the skill set is that much different?

I am willing to admit I am not good at limit - just trying to figure out why?

ShineOn · #8 03-31-2006, 11:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ur not too good , bottom line. gl

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that anyone who has read these forums and SSHE should crush 1/2. However, I think it is probably too early to determine whether he is good or not.

OP, how many hands have you played and what is your BB/100?

ShineOn · #9 03-31-2006, 11:19 AM

Surely you have PT then...post your limit stats.

Beachman42 · #10 03-31-2006, 11:20 AM

Yes, the skill sets are VERY different. I am a so so live & on-line LHE player, but am very profitable at Limit. At the limits you are playing, the play is so terrible that bluffing isn't really an option. The ONLY bluff that works occasionally is a 3 barrel bet on an A high board where the draw does not hit, and that's only if my read supports that the villian is in fact chasing the draw.

IMO, from 1/2 to 5/10, the play is consistent. If anything, I find 3/6 to be the toughest level and 5/10 to be really no different in skill than 1/2. Assume your opponents bets represent what is obvious and go from there.

If you bring a NL mentality to Small Stakes LHE, you will get killed. The games are different.