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#1
10-08-2007, 09:36 PM
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Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
I was playing $1/2 NLHE and at the river I had an Ace hi flush on a paired board. I checked the flush and the LP player moved all-in. I agonized for a while and I turned my hand up. I got the feeling from my opponent he did not like what he saw, so I called, and beat his straight.
After shoving the chips to me. the dealer warned me that 'some dealers' would DQ me from the pot and I shouldn't do that because it takes away from the 'integrity of the game'. In addition she said it was an underhanded way to get a read on your opponent. My reaction was 'WTF?'. Later I talked to one dealer who I have a lot of respect for and he said their mgmt does not like that sort of thing and they are trying to discourage it. Still not satisfied I talked to one of the floor supervisors and he said they consider it a form of angle shooting and that the floormen were unanimous in that opinion. I said to him that Doyle Brunson even said this was a good tactic to do in his book SuperSystem and that Doyle is known world-wide as a ethical player. The floorman's response was that Doyle played in a lot of private games where this was not an issue.... I chose not to argue with him anymore. Being in my B&M rookie season, I would like to know your opinion on this. Please answer the following poll.... 
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#3
10-08-2007, 09:53 PM
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Re: Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
[ QUOTE ]
I've run into a few guys who do this, I turn my head and call the clock on them. [/ QUOTE ] For this cardroom the start the clock automatically when you do this. I got my 'feeling' he did not like my hand within the first 2 seconds so the clock was not a factor for me...
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#5
10-08-2007, 09:56 PM
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Re: Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
[ QUOTE ]
You are a douche. Not unethical, but a douche. [/ QUOTE ] Yes....me and Doyle are both douches. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#6
10-08-2007, 10:01 PM
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Re: Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
Dealer told you X. Another dealer told you X. Floor told you X. What the poll says does not matter. If you play in their house, play by their rules. P.S. You were going to fold the nut flush on a paired board at $1/2 ?
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#8
10-08-2007, 10:12 PM
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Re: Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
[ QUOTE ]
P.S. You were going to fold the nut flush on a paired board at $1/2 ? [/ QUOTE ] Depends on the player. There are some rocks in that room where I would fold my hand. I never played with this guy before. He moved all-in twice before during the session with the nuts so I had to give him some respect. But once I turned my hand up, it was as if I felt his fear magically radiate from him. It was a powerful and enlightning experience for me..... [ QUOTE ] If you play in their house, play by their rules. [/ QUOTE ] Well this is self evident.... My point was Doyle Brunson has one postion on this matter while this card room has the opposite view. So I'm getting conflicting opinions on the matter. I'm just trying to glean wisdom from other B&M veterans in this forum. I will be taking a vacation to Las Vegas in a few months so the Choctaw Card Room rules may or may not apply.... Perhaps I may go to the Atlantic City card rooms someday as well.... Or Foxwoods. So I would like to get a general view on this matter. This tactic worked out well for me so I would like to do it again....if the rules allow...
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#9
10-08-2007, 10:18 PM
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Re: Turning Hand Up Headup = Unethical?
Doyle was also playing illegal games that were robbed at gun point. He was playing to feed his family, it wasn't him [censored] around at some casino using dick moves to beat a guy out of $200.
As long as you play illegal games that get robbed by dudes with shotguns you can feel pretty good about the move.
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#10
10-08-2007, 10:56 PM
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Am I Chasing a Rainbow Here?
I don't see how playing in a casino or in a home game makes a difference.
Nor do I see whether the presense of robbers or no robbers makes a difference.... Nor do I see whether I' m using that money to feed my family or buy some good weed........ I'm trying to: 1. Understand if this is a common rule in B&M play. 2. How a poker legend like Doyle could consider this to be kosher while the floormen at the Choctaw think it is not kosher. No one has offered me an explanation that makes sense. All I've heard on this forum are ad hominem attacks.... If I want ad hominem attacks, I'll go to the 2+2 political political forum... My understanding is that angle shooting is an unethical way to gain an edge over an opponent when their hand would normally lose. Furthermore getting a physical read read on your opponent is something that separates online poker from B&M poker. If showing my cards gives me a better read on my opponent, then I see nothing wrong with this. Perhaps there is ONE PERSON that can give me a coherant explanation...preferable without the personal attacks.....Yes? Am I chasing a rainbow here thinking I can get a coherant explanation on this situation? I thought there would be some great poker minds here that could enlighten this B&M rookie....
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