$50: JJ wtf turn spot - Page 2

Kevroc · #11 10-11-2007, 11:13 AM

I guess I just don't like JJ OOP , I wanna keep the pot small in these type of spots. (I think we can get it in a little better against these types)

Even a LAGtard will think big pair with the reraise... let's see favorable flop (small cards or a J).. then we'll overbet the flop to get that pot size inflated (not like he's going anywhere).

threads13 · #12 10-11-2007, 11:25 AM

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I dont think preflop is so standard, am I alone in this?

I think my default would be to flat call and see what the flop brings. Maybe reraise PF about 10-20% of the time.

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I agree on this point. And asking what if questions can lead to so many answers. Its not what if - its about the present situation. If you want a hypothetical answer - ask a hypothetical question - ur asking for a real answer and at the same time asking a hypothetical question - these are 2 seperate posts....

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Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

In fact, you should be thinking as far ahead to say "I am betting the flop but what if I get raised?" If you aren't you are just going to "accidentally" end up in hairy spots that could have been avoided. It is natural to think hypothetically about a poker hand and there is nothing wrong with what OP said.

ship_it_trebek · #13 10-11-2007, 11:27 AM

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can the people who dont want to reraise preflop explain their thinking to me please?
1) Villains PFR is 17, probably much higher in blind steal situations
2) Were going to be OOP throughout the hand.

So you want to flat call and try and outplay/outguess a LAG OOP? Why?

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+1

Mike Kelley · #14 10-11-2007, 12:05 PM

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Preflop is standard obv. YES it is standard against this villain.
What should I do on the flop if I was raised there? I would probably push
What should I do if the turn wasn't a diamond and <a T? b/c
As played what is my plan on the turn? b/f

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Albert Moulton · #15 10-11-2007, 12:32 PM

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I dont think preflop is so standard, am I alone in this?

I think my default would be to flat call and see what the flop brings. Maybe reraise PF about 10-20% of the time.

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I usually call, too. But the "44/17/3.8 over 45 hands" seems to suggest that we are up against a LAG who will c-b scare cards on any flop with a raising range that is much worse than JJ. So, instead of calling and playing a vulnerable "overpair" like jacks OOP, it is possible that vs this guy we should reraise enough to force him out of the pot with the worst of his raising hands so we can usually win the pot preflop while we are pretty sure our hand is good. Then, if we get called instead of reraised, at least we can narrow his range down a little if he chooses to play post flop after we continuation bet.

Vs nitty preflop raisers, I'll often just play JJ OOP like this for set value. But this guy does not appear to be anything close to a nit.

RapidEvolution · #16 10-11-2007, 12:37 PM

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Villain is 44/17/3.8 over 45 hands. I've been playing 20/10 over the same sample.

Preflop is standard obv.
What should I do on the flop if I was raised there?
What should I do if the turn wasn't a diamond and <a T?
As played what is my plan on the turn?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($71.05)
BB ($27.85)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($11.45)
MP1 ($18.70)
MP2 ($62.50)
CO ($54.90)
Button ($33.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG (poster) checks, 3 folds, CO raises to $1.5, 1 fold, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO calls $4.50.

Flop: ($13) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $9, CO calls $9.

Turn: ($31) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero thinks this sucks.

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*grunch*

Reraising preflop is mighty standard especially against this villain, though I might raise a bit less (5ish) that should be enough to get the flop heads up.

After he calls the big 3bet, what do we put him on? AQ+,KJ+ TT,JJ (unlikely),QQ and maybe KK? If he raises I probably fold thinking that at best he's got AdTx and at worst I'm up against a set or made flush. (but that's me lol)

After he calls flop I think AdTx and maybe KdTx climb up the likelihood scale and I'd shove a low, non-diamond. As played, I think the turn is a c/f and I agree that it sucks. :/

WCGRider · #17 10-11-2007, 12:40 PM

hate this spot but we cant call [censored], b/f and c/f are both valid.

AceHigh · #18 10-11-2007, 12:43 PM

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Turn: ($31) 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero thinks this sucks.

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I disagree...I think you are good here well over half the time. Since opponent is a LAG I would check/call the turn.

RapidEvolution · #19 10-11-2007, 12:50 PM

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can the people who dont want to reraise preflop explain their thinking to me please?
1) Villains PFR is 17, probably much higher in blind steal situations
2) Were going to be OOP throughout the hand.

So you want to flat call and try and outplay/outguess a LAG OOP? Why?

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+1

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+2

CalledDownLight · #20 10-11-2007, 01:35 PM

Calling here preflop sucks so bad. This guy is calling 3bets super wide too. Preflop sizing is fine imo. On the flop I like $10.5, but $9 is ok. Its just that $10.50 sets up a shove for a little under pot whereas your bet makes it a little over pot on the turn.

On the turn idk, I would really play that by feel. I usually have a gut reaction at the table that I can't get in this spot. I think c/f is probably the way to go, but I'm not positive.

edit: Your play and posts are a lot better now than they were a month or so ago. Good job.