Fertility Rates: Is Western society self sustaining?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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6-7 years ago several sectors of society really stopped functioning due to lack of labor (I got mail just twice or so a week, sometimes garbage was not taken etc.), now we are managing to avoid it by being liberal towards the new EU-countries.

[/ QUOTE ] You could also solve this by rearranging the economy to reflect the current population.

It is faulty reasoning to presume that less people=a less good economy, because, amongst other things, while productivity is likely to be less than it otherwise would be overall, productivity per person won't, and that is what we really care about.

100/10=1000/100. A lower population=less producers but also less consumers; lower supply and lower demand.

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You are somehow correct, but the percent of immigrants that are working (mainly due to age profile) is higher than the percent of Norwegians working, thus we would have lower amount of production/inhabitant, thus lower average living standard. So we get used to a "manipulated" demographics that is better than our "real" one.

EDIT: I guess that this shows that we aren't really solving the "problem", since the immigrants grow old, and we thus will need a constant influx to keep our "false" demographic curve.

[FlFishOn]

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Within 1 generation imigrants are fully integrated into the host nations society (speaking in broad terms).


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If I could believe that I'd change my opinion on the future 180 degrees. I don't believe it anymore. Multi-cultural poison is well spread. Assimilation is no longer the prefered choice.

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Do you have any proof? 3rd Generation Latino Immigrants are 0% Spanish Primary Language. Almost every other statistic measured is in line with immigrants of previous generations. If you want to get rid of those WOPs too, that might be understandable.

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How do you like France's chances with it's muslim immigrants? You see them all speaking French in one generation and fully integrating into French cluture? I don't.

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Do you have any proof?

[/ QUOTE ] You need proof? You can vote in 20? different languages. Open your eyes.

[Darryl_P]

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Are our societies saying they don't want to continue?


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I don't think so. Rather, I think the societies that have been predominantly white up until now are saying they'd rather be predominantly non-white.

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Why don't people want to have kids?

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Again, I think this question is best addressed to whites, since every other race is having plenty of kids.

As a white person who knows lots of white people who are reluctant to have kids, I'd say the most common reason is that society is pressuring us to lose our identity. We work hard to raise kids, then lose them to an identityless, economic-based society. A very bad deal if you're starting from a decent economic level. To cope with this, you either need to be very altruistic or have an environment with LOT of political incorrectness at home. The former is quite rare and the latter takes a lot of effort and vision to maintain without the kids revolting, thus the numbers in both camps are rather low.

[pvn]

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Are our societies saying they don't want to continue?


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I don't think so. Rather, I think the societies that have been predominantly white up until now are saying they'd rather be predominantly non-white.

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Societies don't talk. But thanks for a very good illustration of how ridiculous this fallacy is.

[lehighguy]

The economic standpoint is really a side note. I'm convinced immigration will continue for quite some time. I'm also convinced that an economy could adjust to more old people by having them work longer. In short, the economy will always adjust.

I am more interested from the standpoint that failing to reproduce seems like a cultural failure. We've got billions of years of evolution driving us to procreate, and we can't seem to fulfill this one purpose. Any animal that doesn't procreate is ultimately a failure, isn't it? It lost the evolutionary game.

[TomCollins]

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Within 1 generation imigrants are fully integrated into the host nations society (speaking in broad terms).


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If I could believe that I'd change my opinion on the future 180 degrees. I don't believe it anymore. Multi-cultural poison is well spread. Assimilation is no longer the prefered choice.

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Do you have any proof? 3rd Generation Latino Immigrants are 0% Spanish Primary Language. Almost every other statistic measured is in line with immigrants of previous generations. If you want to get rid of those WOPs too, that might be understandable.

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How do you like France's chances with it's muslim immigrants? You see them all speaking French in one generation and fully integrating into French cluture? I don't.

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Do you have any proof?

[/ QUOTE ] You need proof? You can vote in 20? different languages. Open your eyes.

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I don't follow the French situation as closely as the American situation. Your fear is no different than the fear from 80 years ago when we were flooded with undesirables from Italy, Greece, Eastern Europe, and the Orient. But keep letting Michael Savage fearmonger you some more. It is NO different than then.

[lehighguy]

Procreation rates in Asian cultures aren't that high either, though I give them a break for being a little overpopulated. I don't think it's a racial thing. It seems to be much more related to income.

[[Phill]]

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Within 1 generation imigrants are fully integrated into the host nations society (speaking in broad terms).


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If I could believe that I'd change my opinion on the future 180 degrees. I don't believe it anymore. Multi-cultural poison is well spread. Assimilation is no longer the prefered choice.

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Do you have any proof? 3rd Generation Latino Immigrants are 0% Spanish Primary Language. Almost every other statistic measured is in line with immigrants of previous generations. If you want to get rid of those WOPs too, that might be understandable.

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How do you like France's chances with it's muslim immigrants? You see them all speaking French in one generation and fully integrating into French cluture? I don't.

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Do you have any proof?

[/ QUOTE ] You need proof? You can vote in 20? different languages. Open your eyes.

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This is a falcity based on prejudice. French will be the national language of france for a long time to come. Just as English is the national language of England. The concept that america has one national language is falce from the fact that there are only immigrants in america. There happens to have been more English speaking immigrants in the past and so the predominant language spoken there is (an awefully screwed version of) English.

As imigrants move in from south america where portugese and spanish are the national languages the % breakdown on the languages spoken will shift.

You view this as purely a negative thing. In reality its merely a change in society which is reflective of all changes in all societies going back to the creation of humanity.

Change just happens a little faster nowadays.

[FlFishOn]

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You view this as purely a negative thing. In reality its merely a change in society which is reflective of all changes in all societies going back to the creation of humanity.

Change just happens a little faster nowadays.


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Change is OK so long as it is joined with forward progress. DO you expect an Islamic majority Europe under Sharia to equal the current level of accomplishment? If you do you are a fool.

[FlFishOn]

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I don't follow the French situation as closely as the American situation. Your fear is no different than the fear from 80 years ago when we were flooded with undesirables from Italy, Greece, Eastern Europe, and the Orient. But keep letting Michael Savage fearmonger you some more. It is NO different than then.


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Sorry but things are lining up quite differently today. An immigrant's culture is now a treasured artifact under the fraud of multi-culturalism. 100 years ago it was sink or swim and to swim you assimilated. Not so today.

You can vote in most any language. Can you study local politics in all of them? I'd be very surprised. THis was not true 100 years ago.