30/60 8b - LOL 876 JAM JAM! TRIPLE BRICK NOOOOO

[TStoneMBD]

my plan was to try to get the J to fold and have AQ hold up if the other A was on a low draw. i might have misplayed every street. dont know.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($30/$60), Ante $5, Bring-In $10 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 2: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises

4th Street - (7.67 SB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises

5th Street - (9.83 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises

6th Street - (18.83 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (21.83 BB)

Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___folds
Seat 6: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (23.83 BB)

[PokerJans]

Oh my! When you bet 4th, are then raised, and eventually capped I would guess A4 has a pretty good hand. So you might want to slow down.

Since J8 gave all that action on 4th I dont see him folding 5th.

[dcb777]

Tstone,You should at most be check calling 5th. I see what you are saying about trying to get the Jacks to fold, but you are looking at ACES or Aces up and this is unimportant here given third street action. Your check raise doesn't make sense since I don't think getting Jacks to fold is even to your advantage here. you are hoping to make a weak low and not two pair. I think you misplayed this badly and lost more than necessary.

[Andy B]

I think third's a fold. There are a lot of strong cards left to act after you, and while your Ace door card is very pretty, 87 is as rough as they come. There's an excellent chance that the Jack started with a three-flush. Given that he called a completion from a (presumably) tight player on third with a three-flush, I think it is wildly optimistic to think that he's going to fold a four-flush just because of your puny check-raise. Same with fifth. Sixth and seventh were fine, though. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
Tstone,You should at most be check calling 5th. I see what you are saying about trying to get the Jacks to fold, but you are looking at ACES or Aces up

[/ QUOTE ]

if im looking at 2 high hands on 5th, then im making money by jamming my low draw. based on what they showed down (aces up and KK) i had 40% equity on 5th according to twodimes.

[dcb777]

my point was that given previous action 8 seat has you buried for high, so why try to elimate the other guy for his backdoor low when its apparent he is going high. I am posting this without looking at equity edges, but couldn't understand why you want the jacks or jacks up elimanated and would want to put in 3 bets with your hand in this spot with just a bad low draw and nothing made yet.

[HOWMANY]

I wouldn't have gone crazy on 4th but given that you did I think trying to get the guy with a J out could be worth it since the other dude could still easily have a low draw and getting it HU with him for the low price of 1 bet more explodes our equity into the stratosphere.

[dcb777]

what about 5th, we already tried to get the J out on 4th, but are trying again on 5th do you like this.

[SweetLuckyMe]

Your strategy is sound, but it looks like your opponent isn't paying attention to anything but his pair.
Thereign lies the danger in trying to knock out someone who is calling come hell or high water. With these players it's usuall better to keep the pot small early with sub-prime hands like 78A.

I've seen countless similar hands to this where the J is a complete fish, and both A's blank on monster draws and the J wins a monster pot with a single pair of jacks. Let the fish be fish - punish them with value.

[Deveroast78]

depending on the players, I might have dumped the hand on 3rd, but if a lot of loosey-gooseys, prob. would play. I might have shied away from that check-raise on 5th though. Q was a total brick, I'd be wondering if I could get away from the hand at this point, I mean AQ hi and very rough draw to an 8?